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AWS to start charging for IPv4 usage, but critical services don't support IPv6

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Re: AWS to start charging for IPv4 usage, but critical services don't support IPv6

#41

[flagged]

> And this is why I think we need to just modify IPv4 to add more numbers.

There is no "just" in this.

Copy-pasting from my other comment:

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IPv4 data structures have four bytes/octets (4B) for addresses. So how do you fit 8B of addresses in 4B structures? You don't. So you have to update every network element—host (desktop, laptop, mobile, embedded), router, switch, firewall—to have a new data structure (and maybe new function/system calls, as the old ones assume the old structures). So all devices have to have updated network stacks, including long-lived ones that sometimes are not touched for a decade+.

And not just pure networking code: anything that touches (e.g.) DNS as well, as A records are 4B-only as well, so you need a new record type and deploy new DNS server and resolver code everywhere.

But of course if you have a 4B-only network elements/devices, they cannot talk to 8B-only devices/services, so you have to create translation mechanisms because some devices may not yet have the update 8B-capable network stack. And sometimes an 8B network is an island in a sea of 4B, so you have to have tunneling. Of course some may have both 4B and 8B, and want to talk to something has also has 4B and 8B, so now you have to have code for source/destination selection.

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So "just" expanding IPv4 to IPv4+ ends up being the exact same amount of work as ended up with IPv6.

Only only thing you could say with "just" more addresses is keeping ARP and the like (instead of DAD, etc).

Re: AWS to start charging for IPv4 usage, but critical services don't support IPv6

#42

To be fair I have a bunch of instances with public IP addresses just so I can ssh into them easily. This situation made me look into how I'd get into these instances otherwise and indeed you can set up an appropriate endpoint and then run "aws ec2 instance-connect" to make a tunnel that gets you an ssh connection without needing the public IP, so just like that my needs for public IPs actually goes down pretty drasti…

Are you using a docker image to run AWS CLI or something? It shouldn’t have anything to do with docker at all if you’re just running the bare ‘aws’ command.

Re: AWS to start charging for IPv4 usage, but critical services don't support IPv6

#43

[flagged]

In what way would this have "Complete backwards compatibility"? Maybe read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Protocol first, specifically the part where it specifies the on-the-wire format. What backwards compatible change would you actually propose there?

Re: AWS to start charging for IPv4 usage, but critical services don't support IPv6

#45
post #15

Global IPv6 adaptation is currently at around 40%, so maybe don't unassociate that IPv4 address from your load balancer just yet. https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html

ALB doesn't support IPv6-only, so I couldn't even if I wanted to.

Re: AWS to start charging for IPv4 usage, but critical services don't support IPv6

#46

It's called a price increase folks, don't overthink it.

Ip addresses have an actual market value now. They cost 50 cents a month to lease. AWS is charging $3.60 per month. Which isn't orders of magnitude off when you consider AWS probably has a poor utilization rate (can only advertise /24's) and profit margins to consider.

IP addresses were intended to be a public good. The fact that AWS has monopolized so many of them, and now that they own a significant fraction of them is deciding to charge for them. It's ridiculous.

Re: AWS to start charging for IPv4 usage, but critical services don't support IPv6

#47

[flagged]

There's one of these posts in literally every IPv6 thread.

> Complete backwards compatibility

> If it's 8 bytes then it's a full address

Existing IPv4 devices wouldn't be able tell that it's 8 bytes, and wouldn't be able to make heads or tails of such a packet. At best, they discard the packet, at worse, they misinterpret it. It's not backwards compatible.

You can attempt to construe the bits however you like, but you're going to butt up against the pigeon-hole principle here. Any solution that works is going to be materially the same as IPv6.

Re: AWS to start charging for IPv4 usage, but critical services don't support IPv6

#48

[flagged]

> ok, but why?

Because NAT breaks a lot of services.

> Is that going to change with ipv6?

Yes. You no longer need NAT, so port negotiation is much easier (even when inbound is blocked)

> Are you _really_ just going to allow random traffic into your network?

Common misconception! Even without NAT, the router can have port/traffic policies. There's just no address translation happening.

There's a lot of good stuff about IPv6, and I would encourage more people to learn about it and try it out.

- ULAs can act like static internal LAN addresses

- A "strong" NAT is easier to avoid and no longer breaks connections to things that are sensitive like gaming consoles

- Randomized, temporary IPv6 public addresses are a nice feature, and mostly turned on by default

- The biggest one is people seem to equate NAT = router/firewall. This is absolutely not the case, and they are distinctly different. You can absolutely have a router/firewall without NAT!

- CG-NAT is becoming more popular due to the lack of IPv4 addresses, and I hate everything about that.

- You can even run a NAT64 to provide IPv4 access to your IPv6-only devices

Re: AWS to start charging for IPv4 usage, but critical services don't support IPv6

#49

[flagged]

lmao, I heard five dozen arguments against IPv6, but "it's spyware!" wasn't one of them until today.

CGNAT on IPv4 is not gonna save you from the Big Brother. IPv6 has many issues, but it is disingenuous to say the least that "it's a distraction from the big problems." The big problems you're talking about are completely unrelated to your IP packet version, and are not to be fought easily on this battlefield.

Re: AWS to start charging for IPv4 usage, but critical services don't support IPv6

#50

It's called a price increase folks, don't overthink it.

There's also the issue of AWS actually running out and not being able to take on more customer, or at least larger customers. It is solely for the benefit of AWS, not it's customers in any case. If it was about the customers NAT gateways would get reduced in price at the same time.

That being said, I do know companies that have freed up 80% or more of their IPv4 allocation with no service impact. It was simply not an issue previously and AWS made it easier to just allocate more public IP addresses.

They at least hit the right price to ensure that people care, but not making it unreasonable if you do need an IPv4 allocation.

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