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Sad clown paradox

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Re: Sad clown paradox

#121

Post by lazide »

aatd86 wrote: post #114
lazide wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just demanding, it's pretty anxiety inducing as the comedian has no direct control over if the audience will find it funny or not! It's basically the opposite of Stoicism, for instance. Their happiness/success depends on being able to make other people happy/laugh, which... yikes. Do you have any examples of anyone who has done so long term? Looking at the list of professional comedians, I'm not seeing any o…

Stand up comedians have pretty long careers.

A few do. Like actors and musicians. It’s a pretty short list in each field, and a lot of new talent start each year.

I’m not sure how much of that is network effects or what, if they did find a good way to balance it out long term?

When their private lives get exposed, it never seems like there was a good thing going there - but honestly, most people are pretty fucked up anyway, and if it bleeds it leads?

And who cares if someone is a cult headliner or part of a sex cult if they are sufficiently entertaining I guess?

Re: Sad clown paradox

#122

Post by moralestapia »

josephg wrote: post #117
moralestapia wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We don’t like people who are perfect. We like people for their flaws. Also wrong, though. But I'm glad you're in some sort of path to self improvement :D.

Yeah, but anything that can be said with words will always be a bit wrong. “The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao.” and all that. How would you fix it?

IMO the moment you start questioning why you like/don't like somebody you're already on a precarious path.

The reason why you like someone is just because you like them; or the opposite. No need to complicate things. Learn to trust your gut and let your own inner self tell you if you feel like another person should be in your life or not. Things fall naturally into place this way.

Re: Sad clown paradox

#123

Post by nuancebydefault »

JohnFen wrote: post #84
josephg wrote: post #57

I did a clowning masterclass in France a few months ago. (That was a whole, wild experience that I’ll be haunted by for years). While I was there I realised I’ve been operating under a certain kind of dumb philosophy my whole life without realising it. The philosophy is something like this: “I believe if I’m “good” enough, nobody will reject me for being “bad” and people will like me.” And fill in whatever you want f…

> We don’t like people who are perfect. We like people for their flaws. Entirely this. It even applies to physical beauty. People who appear physically flawless are generally perceived as less beautiful than ones that don't.

The paradox seems to be, by trying to be flawless or perfect, we will/want to climb the social ladder in hope of getting respect and being taken seriously. But being higher, means more people are below you, leading to jealousy, envy and people trying to compete with you to get to the same level. They want to prove they are at least as good as you. In fact, just the opposite of what we tried to achieve; admiration, respect, love.

Re: Sad clown paradox

#124

Post by zen928 »

Crunchified wrote: post #6

...or perhaps, Robin Williams syndrome?

It seems that misinformation when the crowd of low-life online celebrities who took the chance to relentlessly virtue signal "awareness of mental illness" around Robin William's death will never truly leave us.

He was depressed from being diagnosed with Parkinsons (ultimately diagnosed as Lewy body dementia) and feeling like he was already losing control of his mind while suffering severely with related complications for over the final year of his life, slowly escalating from signs he was actively seeking healthcare professionals to understand before he got a diagnosis.

Do you see a possible connection between feeling a loss of control with thoughts in your mind with a Parkinsons diagnosis and being depressed, or that he was depressed his entire life while holding an emotional front and the fatal diagnosis was just unrelated and no one could have seen it coming and that we need to be aware of the signs? It's so disrespectful to every party involved to chalk up what happened as something that couldn't have been noticed or prevented.

Re: Sad clown paradox

#126

Post by t-writescode »

atleastoptimal wrote: post #41
t-writescode wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you being racist? Is this an in-joke I don't get? What's up here?

It's a Nick Mullen in-joke, perhaps a bit racist even in context but it was the only quote from him I could remember

Hey, thanks for changing the joke!

Re: Sad clown paradox

#127

Post by jameshush »

josephg wrote: post #57

I did a clowning masterclass in France a few months ago. (That was a whole, wild experience that I’ll be haunted by for years). While I was there I realised I’ve been operating under a certain kind of dumb philosophy my whole life without realising it. The philosophy is something like this: “I believe if I’m “good” enough, nobody will reject me for being “bad” and people will like me.” And fill in whatever you want f…

I perform stand-up comedy a few nights a week. I completely relate to this. Whenever I "bomb" a joke now I'll say something like, "Well everyone, you just witnessed the first, and last, time I will ever say THAT joke" or "Well, THAT didn't work!" and I'll always get the laugh.

Classic beginner's mistake is to try to make yourself "look good" on stage. I did the same thing. Nobody wants to laugh at jokes told by someone who thinks they're better than the audience :)

Re: Sad clown paradox

#128

Post by JohnFen »

jameshush wrote: post #127
josephg wrote: post #57

I did a clowning masterclass in France a few months ago. (That was a whole, wild experience that I’ll be haunted by for years). While I was there I realised I’ve been operating under a certain kind of dumb philosophy my whole life without realising it. The philosophy is something like this: “I believe if I’m “good” enough, nobody will reject me for being “bad” and people will like me.” And fill in whatever you want f…

I perform stand-up comedy a few nights a week. I completely relate to this. Whenever I "bomb" a joke now I'll say something like, "Well everyone, you just witnessed the first, and last, time I will ever say THAT joke" or "Well, THAT didn't work!" and I'll always get the laugh. Classic beginner's mistake is to try to make yourself "look good" on stage. I did the same thing. Nobody wants to laugh at jokes told by someo…

I love that approach!

I go to every live standup show I can, especially small ones where new comedians are learning the craft. Being in the audience when one is bombing is incredibly uncomfortable (probably not as much for the audience as for the comedian, but still...).

I like it a lot when the comedian "acknowledges the suck" in a way that isn't self-pitying or audience-blaming. It really decreases the discomfort level a lot.

The audience is (usually, anyway) on the comedian's side and wants the comedian to be successful, so doing that makes the "we're all on the same team here" aspect more overt.

Re: Sad clown paradox

#129

Post by JohnFen »

nuancebydefault wrote: post #123
JohnFen wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We don’t like people who are perfect. We like people for their flaws. Entirely this. It even applies to physical beauty. People who appear physically flawless are generally perceived as less beautiful than ones that don't.

The paradox seems to be, by trying to be flawless or perfect, we will/want to climb the social ladder in hope of getting respect and being taken seriously. But being higher, means more people are below you, leading to jealousy, envy and people trying to compete with you to get to the same level. They want to prove they are at least as good as you. In fact, just the opposite of what we tried to achieve; admiration, re…

Yes, although it's not always (or maybe even often) that the reaction is because of jealousy or because people want to compete to get to the "same level".

I think that it often has more to do with the fact that nobody is actually "perfect", and so people who seem to be, or are perceived as trying to be, appear inauthentic or "fake". People tend to like real people, and real people have real flaws.

Re: Sad clown paradox

#130

Post by gitaarik »

brookst wrote: post #96
JohnFen wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's still a subject matter expert when it comes to comedy, though.

There’s a school of thought that says if it turns out the inventor of fire was a rapist, we must never be warm.

Then I think we should all be cold, because I'm sure that at the time fire was invented by cavemen, that they were all rapists by today's standards ;). Unless it was a woman that invented fire.

What school of thought is that anyway?

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