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Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it

macworld.com

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Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it

#101

Post by tntaben »

aurareturn wrote: post #77
tntaben wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lifespan of a Macbook Pro will be increased if the RAM is upgraded from 8GB to 16GB, which is very unfriendly to the environment. Ironically, Apple's official website makes a big deal about how low-carbon they are. Note: Customers cannot upgrade the RAM by themselves.

I talked about that point here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38215666

macOS market share is actually 20% on desktop/laptops despite Macs selling only about ~8-10% of total PCs worldwide. ------ So that's older Macs still in use and doesn't mean that the current 8GB Macs is still trending that way.

Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it

#102

Post by justinclift »

aurareturn wrote: post #8

8GB is still good enough for office workers and students. Heck, I used an M1 8GB Air for 1 year as a dev. Although I wish I had more RAM, it still served me well. For $899 (on sale sometimes), the 8GB M2 Air is absolutely a steal. The screen quality, thinness, battery life, build quality, SoC, quietness, coolness, metal enclosure, touchpad, and speakers are simply unmatched by anything in the PC world at that price -…

> 8GB is still good enough for office workers and students.

That's not the target users for the "MacBook Pro" series.

Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it

#103

Post by stephenr »

lpapez wrote: post #84
aurareturn wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No it's not. A ton of programs used by regular people (Chrome etc.) are RAM hogs, if you are a dev, then Docker is also an egregious example. If you happen to play games (a big thing for average people), that 8GB will be shared between the CPU and the GPU. Even the Steam Deck, admittedly a budget device, comes with 16GB. That's why I said normal office workers and students. I never said 8GB is enough for devs. It w…

> That's why I said normal office workers and students. Costing 9 hundos a piece, Air is not something a regular company would buy for their employees. They're more likely to buy a budget laptop in the 400-500 range which you can bet will do just fine for office work, and you can always upgrade it if necessary. If a company really does need their employees to work a Mac, they will have to cough out a lot more for the…

> They're more likely to buy a budget laptop in the 400-500 range

I'd imagine the TCO on those bargain basement laptops is terrible, so I doubt they're really a big sell for corporate buyers.

Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it

#104

Post by [deleted] »

aurareturn wrote: post #80
Osiris wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife’s computer was getting slow so I stuck another 16GB of RAM in it for like $30. that upgraded added years to its life. I have a stack of old MacBooks I can’t use because they only have 256GB SSDs that can’t be upgraded and I was constantly running out of space on them. There is something to be said for being able to upgrade a machine to lengthen its usable life.

> My wife’s computer was getting slow so I stuck another 16GB of RAM in it for like $30. that upgraded added years to its life. Not disputing this. But the vast majority people don't upgrade their laptops. They just buy a new one when it's slow. I can't find it right now but there's been studies done showing that most people never upgrade their RAM/storage even though they could. They just buy a new computer.

[deleted]

Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it

#105

Post by aurareturn »

snickerbockers wrote: post #96
aurareturn wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For the "if people truly cared about the environment" they would probably get the same use out of a similar expensive PC. I really don't think so. I used to buy $800 - $900 Windows laptops. They often lasted 2 years before some hinge is broken or the display suddenly gets corrupted or it comes unbearably slow. I had a 2013 base Macbook Air that lasted until 2019. None of my Windows laptops ever lasted that long. Th…

What on earth are you doing to your laptops that has you convinced that six years is an exceptionally long lifespan!?!? Anyways even though it's literally not a Windows laptop my system 76 lemur ultra i bought in May 2013 works fine after a decade of regular use with no hinge or screen problems. I came close to replacing it recently because i need a laptop with vulkan support but then it turned out that mesa actually…

>What on earth are you doing to your laptops that has you convinced that six years is an exceptionally long lifespan!?!?

When I was a poor college student, I kept buying $500 Windows laptops and they kept breaking after 1-2 years.

Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it

#106

Post by ge96 »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #70
ge96 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of comparison is that 8 to 64. 8 GB for windows also sucks as well or Linux (save with tiling manager), software just bloats over time. Imo 8gb is not enough as baseline, today's 8gb is 16. I remember 4GB being good in 2015.

> What kind of comparison is that 8 to 64. Apple charges $200 to add 8GB, but you can get 64GB for less than $200.

I see

Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it

#107

Post by deafpolygon »

aurareturn wrote: post #59
torginus wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it's not. A ton of programs used by regular people (Chrome etc.) are RAM hogs, if you are a dev, then Docker is also an egregious example. If you happen to play games (a big thing for average people), that 8GB will be shared between the CPU and the GPU. Even the Steam Deck, admittedly a budget device, comes with 16GB. It's often mentioned that macOS is more frugal with RAM, a claim which I flat out found to be unt…

> No it's not. A ton of programs used by regular people (Chrome etc.) are RAM hogs, if you are a dev, then Docker is also an egregious example. If you happen to play games (a big thing for average people), that 8GB will be shared between the CPU and the GPU. Even the Steam Deck, admittedly a budget device, comes with 16GB. That's why I said normal office workers and students. I never said 8GB is enough for devs. It w…

> That's why I said normal office workers and students.

What? NO. 8GB is not enough for browsing and the proliferation of Electron apps these days. The solution shouldn't be constantly swapping, which is what all 8GB Apple devices do. This will lead to early SSD death and since the SSD is soldered on, that means the entire device is useless.

Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it

#108

Post by aurareturn »

justinclift wrote: post #102
aurareturn wrote: post #8

8GB is still good enough for office workers and students. Heck, I used an M1 8GB Air for 1 year as a dev. Although I wish I had more RAM, it still served me well. For $899 (on sale sometimes), the 8GB M2 Air is absolutely a steal. The screen quality, thinness, battery life, build quality, SoC, quietness, coolness, metal enclosure, touchpad, and speakers are simply unmatched by anything in the PC world at that price -…

> 8GB is still good enough for office workers and students. That's not the target users for the "MacBook Pro " series.

The 8GB 14" MBP M3 is a strange one. I personally don't think this SKU should even exist. I think the 15" MBA can replace the now-deprecated 13" MBP Touchbar in the lineup.

Apple did open themselves up to ridicule for putting 8GB on a $1600 "Pro" laptop.

Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it

#110

Post by SebastianKra »

torginus wrote: post #53
aurareturn wrote: post #8

8GB is still good enough for office workers and students. Heck, I used an M1 8GB Air for 1 year as a dev. Although I wish I had more RAM, it still served me well. For $899 (on sale sometimes), the 8GB M2 Air is absolutely a steal. The screen quality, thinness, battery life, build quality, SoC, quietness, coolness, metal enclosure, touchpad, and speakers are simply unmatched by anything in the PC world at that price -…

No it's not. A ton of programs used by regular people (Chrome etc.) are RAM hogs, if you are a dev, then Docker is also an egregious example. If you happen to play games (a big thing for average people), that 8GB will be shared between the CPU and the GPU. Even the Steam Deck, admittedly a budget device, comes with 16GB. It's often mentioned that macOS is more frugal with RAM, a claim which I flat out found to be unt…

I used a M1 with 16GB, and regularly had ~12GB in swap without noticing anything.

Once per day, I maybe got a slight 600ms hang when something was unexpectedly swapped in.

So I can imagine that 8GB will work okay, even if Chrome eats 30% of it.

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