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Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it

macworld.com

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Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it

#91

Post by pjmlp »

aurareturn wrote: post #8

8GB is still good enough for office workers and students. Heck, I used an M1 8GB Air for 1 year as a dev. Although I wish I had more RAM, it still served me well. For $899 (on sale sometimes), the 8GB M2 Air is absolutely a steal. The screen quality, thinness, battery life, build quality, SoC, quietness, coolness, metal enclosure, touchpad, and speakers are simply unmatched by anything in the PC world at that price -…

No it isn't, because of lazy developers that keep pushing Electron apps for those office workers and students.

Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it

#92

Post by AnthonyMouse »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #22
brucethemoose2 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

8GB of LPDDR5X does not cost Apple $200. Its... Maybe $20?[1][2] Its so cheap that it probably costs Apple more to manufacture the extra Macbook/CPU SKU, test it, support it and so on than to just sell 16GB as the baseline. Its literally, purely just to upsell the 16GB version. There is effectively no savings for the consumer even if 8GB is "enough." 1: https://www.dramexchange.com/ 2: https://www.mouser.com/c/semico…

> purely just to upsell the 16GB version It’s market segmentation. Memory isn’t the only difference between those models.

Customers don't like market segmentation.

Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it

#93

Post by fafhnir »

Don't buy it with 8 Gigs. Where's the Problem?

If it's to expensive, buy another one!

Is there a "humen right" or something that says: NO ONE SCHOUL HAVE LESS THAN 16 GIGS!

A Pro(!) Machine which costs 4.000 Bucks with M3 Max, 36 Gigs and 1TB of SSD and ist used for 3 years or so costs 112 Bucks a month. For an absolute powerhouse which is doing Desktop-class Worstation-Performance on the go! And for a machine i am working on 8 hours a day and earn my money!

And as a Pro who has to buy a 112$/month machine you should have paid this thing in one or two hours work per month.

As a hobyist - well, it's a hobby! Buy whatever you can afford.

Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it

#94

Post by pjmlp »

aurareturn wrote: post #18
eisa01 wrote: post #9

This will excerbate the problem with electronic waste by shortening the useful life Apple should be more serious about their environmental commitments

The average Mac is in use for far longer than your average upgradeable windows laptop from Walmart/Costco. One strong evidence for this is that macOS market share is actually 20% on desktop/laptops despite Macs selling only about ~8-10% of total PCs worldwide. [0] So yes, on average, Macs are significantly better for the environment. Having less RAM does not mean people replace their Macs more often than Windows comp…

I still use my Windows laptops and Linux netbook bought around 2009.

Why? Because they are upgradable in what matters, battery, memory and disk space.

Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it

#95

Post by arcticbull »

Osiris wrote: post #17
7e wrote: post #12

Upgrading to 16GB costs as much as dinner for two at a moderately nice restaurant.

Where do you live? I pay half that to take my family of 5 out.

You’ll certainly get close to that in SF with a couple drinks at $20 a pop.

Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it

#96

Post by snickerbockers »

aurareturn wrote: post #72
matsemann wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that this comparison is with quite expensive Macs vs lots of cheap Windows laptops I'm not sure your conclusion makes sense. For the "if people truly cared about the environment" they would probably get the same use out of a similar expensive PC. It's also a bit tone deaf to gatekeep environmentalism behind a $1000++ purchase, especially one that many can't afford.

> For the "if people truly cared about the environment" they would probably get the same use out of a similar expensive PC. I really don't think so. I used to buy $800 - $900 Windows laptops. They often lasted 2 years before some hinge is broken or the display suddenly gets corrupted or it comes unbearably slow. I had a 2013 base Macbook Air that lasted until 2019. None of my Windows laptops ever lasted that long. Th…

What on earth are you doing to your laptops that has you convinced that six years is an exceptionally long lifespan!?!?

Anyways even though it's literally not a Windows laptop my system 76 lemur ultra i bought in May 2013 works fine after a decade of regular use with no hinge or screen problems. I came close to replacing it recently because i need a laptop with vulkan support but then it turned out that mesa actually has a vulkan implementation on ivy bridge (albeit with a warning that it's not entirely functional) so ill be holding onto it for at least a few more months, maybe longer.

Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it

#97

Post by coldtea »

pjmlp wrote: post #91
aurareturn wrote: post #8

8GB is still good enough for office workers and students. Heck, I used an M1 8GB Air for 1 year as a dev. Although I wish I had more RAM, it still served me well. For $899 (on sale sometimes), the 8GB M2 Air is absolutely a steal. The screen quality, thinness, battery life, build quality, SoC, quietness, coolness, metal enclosure, touchpad, and speakers are simply unmatched by anything in the PC world at that price -…

No it isn't, because of lazy developers that keep pushing Electron apps for those office workers and students.

I use Electron apps (VSCode, Slack, etc). They are bloated compared to native apps, but that running a few of them somehow makes 8GB "not enough" is overblown. You get by just fine.

It's wanting to run big VMs that is the real pain point with 8GB.

Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it

#98

Post by weweersdfsd »

aurareturn wrote: post #77
tntaben wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lifespan of a Macbook Pro will be increased if the RAM is upgraded from 8GB to 16GB, which is very unfriendly to the environment. Ironically, Apple's official website makes a big deal about how low-carbon they are. Note: Customers cannot upgrade the RAM by themselves.

I talked about that point here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38215666

I have a 2011 Thinkpad T520 which still works fine, upgraded it to 16GB of RAM. There are high quality Windows laptops out there, but of course they cost as much as a Macbook.

I'm okay with laptops being sold with 8GB of RAM, but I'm not okay with artifically shortened lifespan caused by lack of upgradability. Manufacturers should be regulated to force them offer upgradeable RAM. I don't care what new technological innovations that may require to offer same speeds as current soldered RAM does, it's simply the right thing to do.

Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it

#99

Post by coldtea »

shmde wrote: post #38
aurareturn wrote: post #8

8GB is still good enough for office workers and students. Heck, I used an M1 8GB Air for 1 year as a dev. Although I wish I had more RAM, it still served me well. For $899 (on sale sometimes), the 8GB M2 Air is absolutely a steal. The screen quality, thinness, battery life, build quality, SoC, quietness, coolness, metal enclosure, touchpad, and speakers are simply unmatched by anything in the PC world at that price -…

Apple geeks eating up and justifying anything and everything that apple throws at them is hilarious to see. It takes 50-60$ for a 8GB stick and people justifying that 200$ markup because Apple needs to make profit too. Is it Stockholm syndrome I dont know.

Well, on the other hand, they got AS great performance, amazing battery life, tremendous snapiness, no noise, and so on, first - which you didn't get for a while on the Windows laptop world, even for comparable priced machines, even if they had double the RAM. Not even getting into the trackpad, build quality and materials over cheapo plastic, and so on.

For personal and work purposes I use both Apple and Windows laptops and its no comparison on those areas really, even if you go for the nice one's (Lenovo, Dell Latitude, Surface, etc). And if you add the other configurations, you get closer to the MBP price.

Eg. Latitude 7440 laptop was the one left after filtering for all the "high end" attributes (> 8GB mem, highest intel processor available for the series, FHD+ etc). Configured at: 14", 16GB, the highest processor configuration they offer, 14.0-in. display Full HD+ (which is just 1920X1200, way worse than "retina") goes for $1,659.00 on Dell's website.

I'd get the M1 over that anyday, even if I had to pay $100-$200 extra for the 16GB option. Especially since it will keep its resale value way better.

Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it

#100

Post by aurareturn »

weweersdfsd wrote: post #98
aurareturn wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I talked about that point here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38215666

I have a 2011 Thinkpad T520 which still works fine, upgraded it to 16GB of RAM. There are high quality Windows laptops out there, but of course they cost as much as a Macbook. I'm okay with laptops being sold with 8GB of RAM, but I'm not okay with artifically shortened lifespan caused by lack of upgradability. Manufacturers should be regulated to force them offer upgradeable RAM. I don't care what new technological i…

>Manufacturers should be regulated to force them offer upgradeable RAM.

Disagreed. You can't make RAM upgradeable and have unified memory architecture that makes Apple Silicon good. Let's not regulate technology like this.

There were studies done that showed most people do not upgrade their RAM/storage even though they could. They just bought new computers. I can't find them now but you could probably find them if you dig around.

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