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Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it

macworld.com

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Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it

#71

Post by tntaben »

aurareturn wrote: post #8

8GB is still good enough for office workers and students. Heck, I used an M1 8GB Air for 1 year as a dev. Although I wish I had more RAM, it still served me well. For $899 (on sale sometimes), the 8GB M2 Air is absolutely a steal. The screen quality, thinness, battery life, build quality, SoC, quietness, coolness, metal enclosure, touchpad, and speakers are simply unmatched by anything in the PC world at that price -…

The lifespan of a Macbook Pro will be increased if the RAM is upgraded from 8GB to 16GB, which is very unfriendly to the environment. Ironically, Apple's official website makes a big deal about how low-carbon they are.

Note: Customers cannot upgrade the RAM by themselves.

Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it

#72

Post by aurareturn »

matsemann wrote: post #46
aurareturn wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average Mac is in use for far longer than your average upgradeable windows laptop from Walmart/Costco. One strong evidence for this is that macOS market share is actually 20% on desktop/laptops despite Macs selling only about ~8-10% of total PCs worldwide. [0] So yes, on average, Macs are significantly better for the environment. Having less RAM does not mean people replace their Macs more often than Windows comp…

Given that this comparison is with quite expensive Macs vs lots of cheap Windows laptops I'm not sure your conclusion makes sense. For the "if people truly cared about the environment" they would probably get the same use out of a similar expensive PC. It's also a bit tone deaf to gatekeep environmentalism behind a $1000++ purchase, especially one that many can't afford.

>For the "if people truly cared about the environment" they would probably get the same use out of a similar expensive PC.

I really don't think so. I used to buy $800 - $900 Windows laptops. They often lasted 2 years before some hinge is broken or the display suddenly gets corrupted or it comes unbearably slow.

I had a 2013 base Macbook Air that lasted until 2019. None of my Windows laptops ever lasted that long. The data seems to back up my anecdote experience.

Do you get more RAM on a Windows laptop for the same price as a Mac? Yes, usually. But everything else around the Windows laptop is poor.

Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it

#73

Post by [deleted] »

KingOfCoders wrote: post #32

Whenever I pointed this out "very wide memory bus very close to the M3 chip" I got voted down here. But the Mx performace you get is partially because of the wide memory bus of the unified memory. The downside is the cost and the you-can't-upgrade-card you have been dealt. Please don't point out again it's "just" DDR5 and not in a system-in-a-package and just like any other laptop. "We shouldn’t accept this" Well you…

[deleted]

Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it

#74

Post by snickerbockers »

>That does not mean that 8GB is “enough,” though. Even relatively casual users who load up on browser tabs and inefficient Electron apps (household names like Slack, Teams, Discord, etc.) can find performance compromised by running out of RAM.

As much as i love to rip on Apple's overpriced garbage, i think this speaks more to what an embarrassing clusterfuck the web has become. I remember doing all the listed tasks on computers that didn't even have 8GB HDDs.

Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it

#76

Post by happytiger »

You can justify this all you want, but the truth is, for the price point, Apple is failing its customers with its minimum memory offering.

It’s not about what works: it’s about the perception customers have of the company, and this looks cheap.

Apple is a premium offering and questions like these are a product management failure that can damage the brand.

If you find yourself defending your product for looking inferior as a premium positioned product you have already made terrible mistakes. Apple should raise ram minimums simply to eliminate the perception of value questions. God knows (as does every investor) that they have the margin to do it.

Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it

#77

Post by aurareturn »

tntaben wrote: post #71
aurareturn wrote: post #8

8GB is still good enough for office workers and students. Heck, I used an M1 8GB Air for 1 year as a dev. Although I wish I had more RAM, it still served me well. For $899 (on sale sometimes), the 8GB M2 Air is absolutely a steal. The screen quality, thinness, battery life, build quality, SoC, quietness, coolness, metal enclosure, touchpad, and speakers are simply unmatched by anything in the PC world at that price -…

The lifespan of a Macbook Pro will be increased if the RAM is upgraded from 8GB to 16GB, which is very unfriendly to the environment. Ironically, Apple's official website makes a big deal about how low-carbon they are. Note: Customers cannot upgrade the RAM by themselves.

I talked about that point here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38215666

Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it

#78

Post by al_borland »

Osiris wrote: post #11

When I started my current job they gave me an M1 Mac with 8GB because it’s what they had on hand. I could barely run my IDE and a web browser. At least 1GB was for video memory, and it was swapping constantly. I couldn’t run docker containers because of how much input lag I would get. 8GB is barely usable and shouldn’t even be an option for a Pro machine. I used it for a week before switching to a personal desktop wi…

Did the company have various agents and other things installed? My company installs so much garbage on systems that they can make anything suck. Any time I have issues, it has nothing to do with what I'm trying to do, and has everything to do with the monitoring/management software. Windows, MacOS, more ram, less ram, doesn't really matter. They've found ways to destroy every system ever deployed.

My M1 MacBook Pro has actually handled it the best. My old Intel MacBook Pro would constantly be ramping up the fans, at one point burning through the whole battery in less than an hour if I unplugged it. No such issues with the M1 so far. There are still issues, but mostly crashes, not performance issues, which is a first in nearly 18 years of various desktops and laptops at the company.

Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it

#80

Post by aurareturn »

Osiris wrote: post #56
aurareturn wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average Mac is in use for far longer than your average upgradeable windows laptop from Walmart/Costco. One strong evidence for this is that macOS market share is actually 20% on desktop/laptops despite Macs selling only about ~8-10% of total PCs worldwide. [0] So yes, on average, Macs are significantly better for the environment. Having less RAM does not mean people replace their Macs more often than Windows comp…

My wife’s computer was getting slow so I stuck another 16GB of RAM in it for like $30. that upgraded added years to its life. I have a stack of old MacBooks I can’t use because they only have 256GB SSDs that can’t be upgraded and I was constantly running out of space on them. There is something to be said for being able to upgrade a machine to lengthen its usable life.

>My wife’s computer was getting slow so I stuck another 16GB of RAM in it for like $30. that upgraded added years to its life.

Not disputing this. But the vast majority people don't upgrade their laptops. They just buy a new one when it's slow.

I can't find it right now but there's been studies done showing that most people never upgrade their RAM/storage even though they could. They just buy a new computer.

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