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Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it

macworld.com

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Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it

#41

Post by ge96 »

rrrix1 wrote: post #30
ge96 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of comparison is that 8 to 64. 8 GB for windows also sucks as well or Linux (save with tiling manager), software just bloats over time. Imo 8gb is not enough as baseline, today's 8gb is 16. I remember 4GB being good in 2015.

4gb was good in 2005. 16gb was good in 2015. Personally I won't use a computer (as a daily driver) without 64gb of RAM today. Everything eats memory like it's going out of style.

Yeah it depends what you use it for ofc. At that time I was just working on LAMP stuff with Kate or Bluefish as my editor on Linux Mint ha.

I like leaving computers running for months (sleep at night) with a bunch of (context grouped) virtual windows the issue is when the OS resumes (windows or Mac) the stuff shifts around it's annoying (multi monitor).

Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it

#42

Post by skrebbel »

KingOfCoders wrote: post #32

Whenever I pointed this out "very wide memory bus very close to the M3 chip" I got voted down here. But the Mx performace you get is partially because of the wide memory bus of the unified memory. The downside is the cost and the you-can't-upgrade-card you have been dealt. Please don't point out again it's "just" DDR5 and not in a system-in-a-package and just like any other laptop. "We shouldn’t accept this" Well you…

If I may take a guess, maybe you get downvoted not because of the content of your arguments but because of their coherence.

For instance, who is this “you” you’re raving against? How is CPU performance related to the cost if 8gb RAM?

Consider re-reading your comment before you hit post and the downvotes might well disappear.

Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it

#45

Post by Osiris »

3np wrote: post #21

Counter to title, as a non-mac-user I probably benefit from entry-level Macs having 8GB vs 16GB RAM - it increases pressure on devs to actually try to reign in their ballooning web/Electron apps when resource waste becomes noticable on modern hardware. Accounting for second-order effects over longer timeframes it could be a net benefit for desktop users. 8GB should be plenty. That it isn't is a software problem.

It’s a weird argument. It’s more weird because Apple isn’t the only computer manufacturer.

I’ve never sat in a software development meeting in which the amount of RAM on customer machines was discussed, let alone used as an argument in favor of spending significant time doing software optimizations.

I would be very surprised if Apple selling laptops with 8GB of RAM had any effect whatsoever on software development priorities.

Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it

#46

Post by matsemann »

aurareturn wrote: post #18
eisa01 wrote: post #9

This will excerbate the problem with electronic waste by shortening the useful life Apple should be more serious about their environmental commitments

The average Mac is in use for far longer than your average upgradeable windows laptop from Walmart/Costco. One strong evidence for this is that macOS market share is actually 20% on desktop/laptops despite Macs selling only about ~8-10% of total PCs worldwide. [0] So yes, on average, Macs are significantly better for the environment. Having less RAM does not mean people replace their Macs more often than Windows comp…

Given that this comparison is with quite expensive Macs vs lots of cheap Windows laptops I'm not sure your conclusion makes sense.

For the "if people truly cared about the environment" they would probably get the same use out of a similar expensive PC.

It's also a bit tone deaf to gatekeep environmentalism behind a $1000++ purchase, especially one that many can't afford.

Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it

#47

Post by [deleted] »

shmde wrote: post #38
aurareturn wrote: post #8

8GB is still good enough for office workers and students. Heck, I used an M1 8GB Air for 1 year as a dev. Although I wish I had more RAM, it still served me well. For $899 (on sale sometimes), the 8GB M2 Air is absolutely a steal. The screen quality, thinness, battery life, build quality, SoC, quietness, coolness, metal enclosure, touchpad, and speakers are simply unmatched by anything in the PC world at that price -…

Apple geeks eating up and justifying anything and everything that apple throws at them is hilarious to see. It takes 50-60$ for a 8GB stick and people justifying that 200$ markup because Apple needs to make profit too. Is it Stockholm syndrome I dont know.

[deleted]

Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it

#48

Post by matsemann »

_Algernon_ wrote: post #28
Osiris wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re arguing that we should all be using 10-20 year old computers and that computers should never get faster because it makes us write less efficient code? That’s an asinine argument.

>That’s an asinine argument. Good that that isn't the actual argument made by GP, but just a pretty strawman you managed to think up.

I'm also unable to read the argument in any other way. If you have a better explanation please provide it.

Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it

#49

Post by Osiris »

aurareturn wrote: post #36
Osiris wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How? What apps are you using? As soon as I plug in an external monitor it turns into molasses. If I try to do a screen share for a video call, it lags. My memory pressure graph was always maxed out. If I ran the test suite for one repo the system became unresponsive. Docker would eat 4GB with only two containers (just redis and postgresql for local dev) I had to manually tune docker to use a little as possible. It wa…

You're clearly a dev who requires at least 16GB. For many office workers, 8GB is fine.

I supposed if you only used your $1800 MacBook Pro to use the web browser, then yeah, 8GB would be fine.

Re: Apple has a memory problem and we're all paying for it

#50

Post by aurareturn »

shmde wrote: post #38
aurareturn wrote: post #8

8GB is still good enough for office workers and students. Heck, I used an M1 8GB Air for 1 year as a dev. Although I wish I had more RAM, it still served me well. For $899 (on sale sometimes), the 8GB M2 Air is absolutely a steal. The screen quality, thinness, battery life, build quality, SoC, quietness, coolness, metal enclosure, touchpad, and speakers are simply unmatched by anything in the PC world at that price -…

Apple geeks eating up and justifying anything and everything that apple throws at them is hilarious to see. It takes 50-60$ for a 8GB stick and people justifying that 200$ markup because Apple needs to make profit too. Is it Stockholm syndrome I dont know.

It probably costs Apple way less than $50-$60 for 8GB. The margins must be very high.

I understand the business aspect of this for Apple. I'm not mad at them. I'll pay $200 to upgrade the RAM so that I can keep using macOS and have a well-built laptop that makes no noise. Apple knows this. It's just good business in my opinion. But I guess to you, I'm an Apple geek who has Stockholm syndrome.

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