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People no longer know how much to tip

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Re: People no longer know how much to tip

#111

Their "history of tipping" doesn't make a ton of sense. They say it starts with black americans willing to work as waiters for lower wages, since they could expect to be paid with tips. If they took those jobs expecting to be tipped, tipping was already a common practice.

I've read this article before that seems to offer some additional information on the topic you raised. [1]

> When the practice was brought to the United States in the 19th century, the American public was deeply uncomfortable with it. Many saw tipping as undemocratic and therefore un-American. A powerful anti-tipping movement erupted, fueled by the argument that employers, not customers, should be paying workers. But American restaurants and railway companies fought particularly hard to keep tipping, because it meant they didn’t have to pay recently freed black slaves who were now employed by those industries. Europe eventually did away with tipping. But in America, pressure from powerful corporate interests resulted in a two-tiered wage system for tipped and non-tipped workers, institutionalizing a highly racialized system of economic exclusion.

[1] https://www.fordfoundation.org/news-and-stories/stories/amer...

Re: People no longer know how much to tip

#112
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real problem is that minimum wages are too low. If you make more in tips than with your wage - there is something conceptually wrong. I understand this is the norm in the States, but in Europe this is definitely not the case (as far as I know).

States like california have a comparable (if not higher) minimum wage and require the servers to be paid at least the minimum. I guarantee you, if european servers had a chance, they too would try to charge tips as much as possible because they do make way more with it.

Europe and the States are culturally different - servers in Europe don't ask for a tip on the receipt. Actually they don't ask it at all since it's not a thing they do expect.

The only way for them to increase their chances of getting tipped is by... providing an outstanding service - which is how tipping should work. Something exceptional deserves to be rewarded

Re: People no longer know how much to tip

#113
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that orders get picked by drivers somewhat based on tip amount.

Which app do you use? Uber Eats (in Europe at least) ask for tips _after_ the delivery. If they do it before, then I agree with you, it's totally stupid

Doordash, and they ask for it before, and then ask if you want to increase it afterwards (with no option to decrease it).

Re: People no longer know how much to tip

#114
post #7

Yesterday I had lunch at a Shake Shack. Humans don't take orders there any more; you place your order at a self-serve touchscreen kiosk. As I finished placing my order, I was prompted to leave a tip; 10% was the default and you had to press a button to change it. Who am I tipping, exactly? The kiosk? Myself? No one had even made eye contact with me up to this point. I have ordered fast food from a computer. When I ha…

The tip wouldn't have gone to the food staff prepping your burger so doubt they'd even know

The BOH wouldn't know or carw, but the server usually handles the food and drink before it gets to the table.

Re: People no longer know how much to tip

#115
Worse it's used to perpetuate this scheme:

"Tipped employees must receive a minimum wage of $2.13 per hour, known as a cash wage. That cash wage is combined with tips to reach the federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour. (Many states and localities, listed below, have minimum wages set above the federal rate)."

The idea being that you will fit the bill for their labor costs through tips instead of paying it themselves. Somehow the tipping idea perpetuated such that they can and do pay less than minimum wage because of the prevalence of tipping.

https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/finance/tipped-minimum-wa...

Re: People no longer know how much to tip

#116

It can sound controversial, but can we please stop with tipping altogether? Leaving aside for a second the fact that now tipping is basically asked everywhere (even at automated machines) - as an European I consider it an extremely stupid trend. If you're "forced" to tip, then it's not a tip anymore. The concept of tipping, at least in Switzerland, has always been to show gratitude for an *exceptional* service. I tot…

I lived in Switzerland for 6 months and being originally from the US I tipped a server at a restaurant reflexively by leaving money on the table. The server picked it up and brought it back to me before I left and said “This is not necessary, I get paid to work here.” Being the typical clueless American I was stunned. But I learned over time that just as I would not tip my accountant, banker or lawyer - or plumber, carpenter or mechanic that in this case here was another person I received a service from who did not need “charity”.

Re: People no longer know how much to tip

#117
I have lived in the US for nearly 20 years (originally from Europe), SF for ~10 but I've since moved to a less progressive state in order to raise my kids in a better environment.

I don't tip, ever. I've been pestered with why questions even after I calmly and clearly explained myself, chased down the street by angry waiters, cursed at and even threatened with violence. Still, I don't tip.

Re: People no longer know how much to tip

#118

One of the things about going to Japan, was the service there is phenomenal . Like way above-average. They won't accept tips. In fact, if you leave money on the table, they will chase after you, to give it back. If they did accept tips, I'd make it 50%. I'm pretty sure the reason is that the employees are paid a living wage. A nice side-effect, is that your table doesn't have an "assigned waitstaff." You can ask anyo…

> I'm pretty sure the reason is that the employees are paid a living wage. The reason is cultural. They take pride in their work, regardless of any additional donations. I would even say it is insulting to be left a tip since the assumption, then, is that the worker would not have done the job to the best of their ability without the prospect of a donation.

To note, "it's cultural" usually means "they've tried a lot of options and this one stuck as the most pragmatic at a social level"

There's just so many reasons to not accept tips. In tipping countries it's seen as a boost for productivity, while in practice it also generates friction within the staff, widens the gap between day and night staff, blurries the client/staff relationship and makes kitchen staff miserable. And just so many additional reasons.

Re: People no longer know how much to tip

#119
The answer is more obviously becoming zero.

Restaurants exist in every country in the world but somehow in America we have been convinced if you don't pay the extra hidden fee then nobody there can survive. Prices have increased so much on food that there just needs to be a reset. If I'm paying 15 dollars for fast food and then asked to tip on top of that I am fine with that business eventually going out of business.

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