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Whither philosophy?

aeon.co

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Re: Whither philosophy?

#121

Post by keiferski »

FredPret wrote: post #116
keiferski wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to think that academics just sit in ivory towers and don’t factor in “the real world” to their arguments. That’s…not how it works, it’s just a poor anti-intellectual characterization. Your supposed “real world alternative” is pop-philosophy writers and loud, attention-seeking people on social media influencing what we ought to do about seriously complex issues like abortion.

No, I’m not comparing Harris to academic philosophers. I’m speaking in general: there is a class of ideas that aren’t worth anything until they are tried. Because you can’t fully “factor in the real world” in an argument - it’s far too surprising and complex. Examples include economic theories, military strategies, business plans, and getting people to do anything differently at all. Making these work requires attent…

I'm not sure how this has anything to do with my comment.

Re: Whither philosophy?

#122

Post by keiferski »

mistermann wrote: post #120
keiferski wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people insist on reading the absolute worst interpretation of every comment on the internet? Honestly. It is so tiresome. If I had to pick a favorite philosopher, it would be Nietzsche. No other thinker has influenced me more, and if you spent half a second searching Nietzsche and my username on HN, you’d see that. But if the man were alive today, he’d be writing a blog with 50 subscribers - because that’s abo…

>Why do people insist on reading the absolute worst interpretation of every comment on the internet? Honestly. It is so tiresome. Do you feel similarly about the rigor of the scientific method?

You're gonna have to unpack that, because it's not clear to me how it has anything to do with my comment.

Re: Whither philosophy?

#123

Post by GoblinSlayer »

simbolit wrote: post #10
b450 wrote: post #7

The argument is sometimes made that philosophy is the mother of all other academic traditions - once a philosophical idea reaches a sufficient level of promise or maturity, it spins off into its own discipline, as in the speciation of "natural philosophy" into specialized hard sciences. One might even point to psychology (or even more contentiously and partially, computer science) as a 20th century offshoots of philo…

> today's philosophy is a junk drawer of dead-end intellectual projects that never yielded anything useful I hold multiple degrees in philosophy and this is a correct description (for >95% of what happens in academic philosophy).

When you look for knowledge, you aim for the best, not for the average. Also science has crackpots too, they are just underfunded.

Re: Whither philosophy?

#125

Post by fastaguy88 »

dventimi wrote: post #69
jfengel wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that's OK. It's not expensive, and it's useful to have a place for off-the-wall notions that probably won't pay off. It's always going to be contentious, because even that small pot of money will attract many different grasping hands. But it seems a worthwhile tradeoff, Just In Case. At least as much as, say, the more abstruse areas of theoretical physics and mathematics.

> It's not expensive. There are evidently ~10k philosophy professors in the US and the average salary is ~100k. That's ~$1 billion. I think college is already an expensive waste but if it has to exist and if those professors are mostly entertaining undergraduates I suppose ~0.004% of GDP to pay camp counselors at a playground that's going to exist anyway, isn't all that expensive. I rate your coment as "mostly true."

I am not particularly knowledgeable about philosophy as a modern discipline, but taking philosophy courses as an undergraduate taught me a lot, particularly about the limits of knowledge and scientific enquiry. I'm happy to argue that there are a lot of courses taught at university that are considerably less useful than philosophy -- but I'm sure there are lawyers (classics and rhetoric) and screen writers (comparative literature) who can point out how those disciplines contribute.

Re: Whither philosophy?

#126

Post by jfengel »

dventimi wrote: post #124
hotnfresh wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It didn’t pay off?

It's not a philosophical notion.

The book "Physics" was written by Aristotle, who is so much of a philosopher that he's often called "The Philosopher". He's also the author of a book called "Metaphysics", pretty much the quintessential field of philosophy.

The entire point of this conversation was that some fields, including physics, get split off from philosophy, leaving behind a mishmash. But many scientific fields absolutely began as aspects of philosophy, and it's only because they're so successful that people deny that.

Re: Whither philosophy?

#127

Post by fastaguy88 »

djoldman wrote: post #64
jfengel wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that's OK. It's not expensive, and it's useful to have a place for off-the-wall notions that probably won't pay off. It's always going to be contentious, because even that small pot of money will attract many different grasping hands. But it seems a worthwhile tradeoff, Just In Case. At least as much as, say, the more abstruse areas of theoretical physics and mathematics.

What's an example of a philosophical notion that did pay off?

Modern methods of scientific enquiry. Most scientists no longer look to the bible or tea leaves.

Re: Whither philosophy?

#129

Post by dale_glass »

mistermann wrote: post #119
dale_glass wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Have you any concerns about things like war, climate change, etc? Because physics has been quite useful for bringing these things into our reality, but seems less so for making them go away. Sure. But I highly doubt that philosophy holds the answer. Like take the current conflict in Gaza. Can you imagine solving it by having both sides read books about I don't know, stoicism? I can't. Now I'm not one of the people…

>Sure. But I highly doubt that philosophy holds the answer. Do you have any interest in the truth of the matter though? Can you have any, and how much? Might you have some unrealized limitations imposed upon not just your beliefs, but your forms of thinking? Perhaps considering what's at stake could offer additional motivation. >Like take the current conflict in Gaza. Can you imagine solving it by having both sides r…

> Do you have any interest in the truth of the matter though?

Truth of which matter?

> Can science solve it, limited to Grade 10 scientific curriculum, or at all? They've certainly helped with the weaponry part.

I mean, a conflict certainly can end if everyone on one side of it dies, but I don't think that's quite the sort of solution one expects in a discussion about philosophy.

> And yes, I certainly can.

Do tell.

Re: Whither philosophy?

#130

Post by dventimi »

5040 wrote: post #111
dventimi wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indian astronomers and mathematicians have a stronger claim to that invention than anyone recognizable as a classical European philosopher. I rate this claim as "false."

I didn't realize we were limiting ourselves to Western philosophy. Also, many mathematicians and astronomers have been philosophers--more so in elder days.

Every philosopher mentioned in the original article is Western, so I propose that we do limit ourselves Western philosophy, but if you want to argue in favor of a different proposal then I'd love to hear your reasoning.

Also, any philosopher who was also a mathematician and astronomer could have his or her contributions assigned to "mathematics" or "astronomy" which these days are whole other departments from philosophy, in whole other colleges. In that case, "philosophy" remains in the position of not having much to show for itself.

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