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Sad clown paradox

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Re: Sad clown paradox

#61
post #56

> Sad clown paradox is characterised by a cyclothymic temperament. How do I parse this sentence?

     noun phrase (subject)
       Sad clown paradox
              |
         verb phrase
      is characterised by
              |
      noun phrase (object)
    a cyclothymic temperament

?

Re: Sad clown paradox

#62
Stewart Lee: Please help doctor, I’m really depressed, is there anything you can do?

Doctor: The greatest comedian in the world is in town, Stewart Lee, you should go see him.

Stewart Lee: But I am Stewart Lee!

Doctor: O right, sorry I didn’t recognise you, you’ve got really fat.

Re: Sad clown paradox

#63
post #57

I did a clowning masterclass in France a few months ago. (That was a whole, wild experience that I’ll be haunted by for years). While I was there I realised I’ve been operating under a certain kind of dumb philosophy my whole life without realising it. The philosophy is something like this: “I believe if I’m “good” enough, nobody will reject me for being “bad” and people will like me.” And fill in whatever you want f…

Here's a conversation between two British comedians I enjoy talking about something very similar, you might enjoy it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqZZ9uXomhg

You might want to check the news about Russel Brand. Probably not the best person to link to.

Re: Sad clown paradox

#64
post #57

I did a clowning masterclass in France a few months ago. (That was a whole, wild experience that I’ll be haunted by for years). While I was there I realised I’ve been operating under a certain kind of dumb philosophy my whole life without realising it. The philosophy is something like this: “I believe if I’m “good” enough, nobody will reject me for being “bad” and people will like me.” And fill in whatever you want f…

If you enjoy characters accepting the flop, you'll love the Czechoslovakian stop motion series "A je to!". Might just be my nostalgia goggles, but I think it's a gem. Example: https://youtu.be/tQ_sBzSaJIo?si=asx9J2nLex6QMpIy

Re: Sad clown paradox

#65
post #57

I did a clowning masterclass in France a few months ago. (That was a whole, wild experience that I’ll be haunted by for years). While I was there I realised I’ve been operating under a certain kind of dumb philosophy my whole life without realising it. The philosophy is something like this: “I believe if I’m “good” enough, nobody will reject me for being “bad” and people will like me.” And fill in whatever you want f…

Here's a conversation between two British comedians I enjoy talking about something very similar, you might enjoy it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqZZ9uXomhg

Lots of conversations on RLHSTP (Richard Herring's podcast) about comedy that end up in similar discussions : https://www.rhlstp.co.uk/

Re: Sad clown paradox

#66

There's a related phenomenon I've seen a lot, sometimes firsthand, of people who consider themselves shy while others consider them the life of the party.

There was a documentary about one of the biggest party organisers in Denmark. He was a self described introvert, yet organised and invited the rich and the beautiful to big one-off club events. If I remember correctly, he felt as an organiser, he already had a reason to talk to guests and as an organiser he always had an excuse to leave a conversation, which are basically two very common fears of an introverts who st…

Organizing parties and attending are very different things. A bit like directing a movie vs acting, taking pictures vs modeling, etc...

You can totally organize parties while being an introvert, it may even be a desirable trait, since a good part of the job is to hide all the gory behind-the-scenes details. For having staffed a few events, one of the thing I find most satisfying is when shit happens (sometimes literally!) and in the end attendees don't notice and leave happy.

Re: Sad clown paradox

#67

There's a related phenomenon I've seen a lot, sometimes firsthand, of people who consider themselves shy while others consider them the life of the party.

Yes introversion/extroversion is not binary or really even a 1 axis continuum.

Clearly it is multi faceted / multi dimensional or multi-layered. Like the concept of a persons personality having layers like an onion and few if any know your most interior true self layer.

My wife & I could be perceived as more/less introverted by situation. Work vs family vs friends, talking to known acquaintances vs talk to strangers and making new ones. Who is on social media vs who has 10 text groups of intimate friends they talk to throughout the week. Planning social gatherings vs complaining about plans and wanting to cancel.

Re: Sad clown paradox

#68
post #58
post #56

> Sad clown paradox is characterised by a cyclothymic temperament. How do I parse this sentence?

Emotional highs and lows. You feel REAL good when you feel good and REAL bad when you feel bad. The world is either amazing and full of wonder, or a hopeless mess.

Sounds like every programmer I know, including myself. Either you feel like the dumbest idiot alive or literally the omnipotent god himself, and nothing in between.

Re: Sad clown paradox

#69
The symbol of happy/sad drama masks (Thalia and Melpomene) is an ancient reference to this same dynamic.

Was prompted to look up the definition of the word "pathetic," recently, and it means evocativeness of emotion, but typically sympathy or pity instead of laughter. Being comical and pathetic seem like the same thing, we just don't understand the word well because it's an epithet in pop culture that nobody considers the meaning of. When you look at a lot of art or music as pathetic in that they are aimed to stir a kind of nostalgia or sorrow, it's the same underlying art that produces laughter and joy. It's like a spectrum of Handel to Chopin, where one evokes soaring joy and the other a sense of nostalgia and memory.

I'm very funny, but I also make very pathetic art as expressions of the same underlying capacity for pathos. In the essential meaning of the word comedy is a pathetic artform that refines out the neutralizing emotions and produces pure involuntary laughter. Whereas the well of personal experience the performer uses is going to have all the "sadness" (in the form of wistfulness, nostalgia, romance, etc.) as well. Someone who is funny or brilliant or entertaining operates using pathetic (evocative) means. This "sadness" of clowns is only a problem when we judge or criticize it.

Really, if you can just see your comedic sadness as a natural capacity for pathos, (and take the Zen view of not being your feelings) it's another source of creative energy.

Re: Sad clown paradox

#70

There's a related phenomenon I've seen a lot, sometimes firsthand, of people who consider themselves shy while others consider them the life of the party.

I was just visiting a friend and the exact opposite happened to me - she suggested I was reserved when I would describe myself as outgoing. It was an offhand comment on her part and I'm not given to introspection but it did make me think.

I remembered another friend who seemed entirely different depending upon his girlfriend being around or not. The thing that confused me was I couldn't figure out which version of this friend was the "real" version of him and which was an act - an act for the benefit of the girlfriend or an act for the benefit of the people who only knew him as he was without the girlfriend's presence.

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