Earlier quoted context omitted.
> In Ancient Greece most of the philosophers were strong people, that had personally done great things, or endured incredible hardships with the aid of their philosophy, and these real world tests stood as evidence of its value. Are you just describing Stoicism here? The only "strong man" ancient philosopher I can think of is Marcus Aurelius (not Greek, incidentally). Plato's Republic didn't come from his experience…
Wasn't Plato a wrestler who would occasionally win arguments by just flexing? Or have I been mislead by internet pop culture...? :P
Whither philosophy?
91–100 of 192 posts
Re: Whither philosophy?
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just as you must distinguish between philosophers and philosophy professors, you must distinguish between philosophy and academic ersatz. We all know what guides and drives academia. It's not always the love of wisdom (philo + sophis). Why should metaphysics be a dead end? Given the facts of observation, what must be true of reality so that such facts can obtain? Metaphysics is tacit within the facts, and a metaphysi…
I put it to you that most of us did not need a paragraph of ten-dollar words to dismiss skepticism and relativism, and that serious academic study of philosophy puts one at higher, not lower, risk of embracing such nonsense. Metaphysics may not be inherently bullshit, but empirically the study of it seems to be so in practice.
Re: Whither philosophy?
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
And that's OK. It's not expensive, and it's useful to have a place for off-the-wall notions that probably won't pay off. It's always going to be contentious, because even that small pot of money will attract many different grasping hands. But it seems a worthwhile tradeoff, Just In Case. At least as much as, say, the more abstruse areas of theoretical physics and mathematics.
What's an example of a philosophical notion that did pay off?
Re: Whither philosophy?
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wasn't Plato a wrestler who would occasionally win arguments by just flexing? Or have I been mislead by internet pop culture...? :P
He was a wrestler of some renown in his youth and his coach nicknamed him 'Platon,' after his size or big shoulders (depending on who's telling it). Winning arguments by flexing is apocryphal, as far as I know.
Re: Whither philosophy?
#95Re: Whither philosophy?
#96The argument is sometimes made that philosophy is the mother of all other academic traditions - once a philosophical idea reaches a sufficient level of promise or maturity, it spins off into its own discipline, as in the speciation of "natural philosophy" into specialized hard sciences. One might even point to psychology (or even more contentiously and partially, computer science) as a 20th century offshoots of philo…
It is based on a lecture given by Ayn Rand to the graduating class of West Point Military Academy in March 1974. Some people will be alarmed by the name, Ayn Rand, so I will post few snippets and then you can choose to ignore or read the ~10 minutes essay.
The assignment I gave myself for tonight is not to sell you on MY philosophy, but on philosophy as such.
The best way to study philosophy is to approach it as one approaches a detective story: follow every trail, clue and implication, in order to discover who is a murderer and who is a hero. The criterion of detection is two questions: Why? and How? If a given tenet seems to be true - why? If another tenet seems to be false - why? and how is it being put over? You will not find all the answers immediately, but you will acquire an invaluable characteristic: the ability to think in terms of essentials.
Now some of you might say, as many people do: "Aw, I never think in such abstract terms - I want to deal with concrete, particular, real-life problems - what do I need philosophy for?" My answer is: In order to be able to deal with concrete, particular, real-life problems - i.e., in order to be able to live on earth. You might claim - as most people do - that you have never been influenced by philosophy. I will ask you to check that claim. Have you ever thought or said the following? "Don't be so sure - nobody can be certain of anything." You got that notion from David Hume (and many, many others), even though you might never have heard of him. Or: "This may be good in theory, but it doesn't work in practice." You got that from Plato. Or: "That was a rotten thing to do, but it's only human, nobody is perfect in this world." You got that from Augustine. Or: "It may be true for you, but it's not true for me." You got it from William James. Or: "I couldn't help it! Nobody can help anything he does." You got it from Hegel. Or: "I can't prove it, but I feel that it's true." You got it from Kant. Or: "It's logical, but logic has nothing to do with reality." You got it from Kant. Or: "It's evil, because it's selfish." You got it from Kant. Have you heard the modern activists say: "Act first, think afterward"? They got it from John Dewey. Some people might answer: "Sure, I've said those things at different times, but I don't have to believe that stuff all of the time. It may have been true yesterday, but it's not true today." They got it from Hegel. They might say: "Consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." They got it from a very little mind, Emerson. They might say: "But can't one compromise and borrow different ideas from different philosophies according to the expediency of the moment?" They got it from Richard Nixon - who got it from William James.
Re: Whither philosophy?
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sure, on an individual level. But that sounds like a failure at the societal level to me. We shouldn’t want the only people sharing their expertise to be the most comfortable with publicity.
I disagree - it's only when you try to take ideas out of the textbook and put them in the real world where it is relevant to people that you run into the messy details that make or break ideas. If the ideas are about purely intellectual things, that's fine. But if the ideas are about people's lives or actions, or any complex system in the real world, then the idea isn't really fully fleshed out until someone starts t…
Your supposed “real world alternative” is pop-philosophy writers and loud, attention-seeking people on social media influencing what we ought to do about seriously complex issues like abortion.
Re: Whither philosophy?
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
> But everyone asks questions from metaphysics. "Who am I?" "What is reality?" Everyone also wipes their butts. But that doesn’t mean we need Departments of Butt Wiping and tenured professors who have spent their whole life time studying techniques of butt wiping.
On the contrary: I think you actually make a good argument for why we SHOULD have a Department of Butt Wiping with tenured professors who have spent their whole life time studying techniques of butt wiping. If everyone does it (and often multiple times a day to boot) then there's actual material improvements to the human condition that could be identified and implemented. That improvement requires study, rigor, and p…
Re: Whither philosophy?
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
Maybe not the right term. My point is that many philosophers believe that reality (a) is basically as it seems, and/or (b) is basically knowable. It's very odd to say that those views are exclusive to Rand. edit: one nice example would be Thomas Reid.
I don't know how to tell you this, but you are wrong. 1. Plato believed with live in a degenerate physical world that was a reflection of an alternate dimension. 2. Christian philosophy believes god can change the rules of reality at any given moment. 3. Kant believed we cannot know the noumenal world (world beyond our preception) 4. Materialists believe we don't know anything and we're just atoms deterministically s…
Re: Whither philosophy?
#100I'll just say that studying the works Plato, Aristotle, Bacon, Descartes, Locke, Hobbes, Machiavelli, Rousseau, Kant, Thoreau, Hume, Nietzsche, G.E Moore, Russell, A.J. Ayer, Popper, Schopenhauer, Sartre and many others made me a better and more rounded person. They taught me to think better, to argue logically and put things into perspective. I often don't succeed but those guys are always at the back of my head niggling about what I think and pushing me to evaluate or reevaluate what I am doing. They've altered my thinking and my perception of the world.
My profession isn't philosophy but moving electrons around or at least trying to make them do my bidding (sometimes I reckon they're the philosophers, not me). In many ways much of what I do involves the physical world and seemingly it couldn't be further away from philosophy— metaphysics —which, by definition, is above and beyond physics. However, I'd argue that those who only perceive the world through the mathematics of say Einstein's and Schrödinger's equations and debunk philosophy as base or at best a waste of time have missed the point. Likely they haven't studied philosophy so they've not considered that the way they've learned and gained knowledge is itself a philosophical study of practical value, namely epistemology. Science was once termed natural philosophy and many of the ways of thinking and learning are common to both.
It seems to me that conceptualizing quantum fields in QFT (or at least trying to) isn't that different a process to Berkeley conceptualizing whether the tree in the Quad exists when there's no one to look at it. No doubt the former is magnitudes more complex, and given that 250 years have passed since Berkeley's era approaches to thinking about such matters have become more nuanced and complex. In physics today causality is a central concept and David Hume refined Berkeley's propositions to incorporate inductive reasoning and causality. Philosophers fine-tuned the thinking process that eventually allowed inductive reasoning to conclude the Higgs particle actually exists despite that no one has ever seen it directly—even CERN's detectors never saw it, they've only ever detected the aftermath of its decay. Philosophy not only has practical purposes but it's a fascinating subject.
Then there are the books, some of the most significant and influential ever written, Republic, Leviathan, A Treatise of Human Nature, Social Contract, Critique of Pure Reason, Being and Nothingness, etc., etc. These are works of brilliant minds that have endured over the centuries—and they endured for so long for the very reason that many have valued their contents greatly.