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Yesod 1.0 - a robust, friendly, high performance web framework for Haskell

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Re: Yesod 1.0 - a robust, friendly, high performance web framework for Haskell

#91

Post by cies »

ULTERIOR MOTIVES WARNING:

There is someone under the name "papsosouid" [1] on this thread with an account that's "coincidentally" as old as the thread itself, and has only commented on this thread so far [2].

He seems pretty acquainted to this community (he was quick to show me the HN posting guidelines) therefor I suspect he must have another account at HN. I also suspect he has created this new account especially for posting in this thread: why would one do that? I cano only think of; (a) to conceal whom he really is, or (b) because he expects karma-negative results of his actions -- one not excluding the other.

[1] http://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=papsosouid

[2] http://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=papsosouid

Re: Yesod 1.0 - a robust, friendly, high performance web framework for Haskell

#92

Post by papsosouid »

cies wrote: post #80
microtonal wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, since I only really have experience with Snap: When comparing to Ruby frameworks, you could roughly say that Snap is to Yesod what Sinatra is to Rails. Snap is relatively simple and as such easy to fully understand. But since it is a relatively simple framework, you have to mix and match other packages to get the functionality that you want. Yesod on the other hand is very elaborate - it contains a lot of funct…

> FWIW, since I only really have experience with Snap: When comparing to Ruby frameworks, you could roughly say that Snap is to Yesod what Sinatra is to Rails. I've used both and this is pretty from my experience. If I can make comparisons I think: * Yesod is like Rails w/ haml+sass (but type-safety throughout) * Snap is like Servlets+JSP (especially wrt templating, besides that it is quite similar to Yesod) * Happst…

>Snap is like Servlets+JSP (especially wrt templating, besides that it is quite similar to Yesod)

Snap offers heist as a default template engine. It is nothing like JSP at all, it is a pure html template engine like lift or zope's templates. There is no embedding any sort of logic or code in the template at all.

>How is that a problem? I say: "Template Haskell and Quasi-Quoting FTW!"

Using is fine, it is intended to reduce boilerplate and works well for that purpose. Yesod over-uses it where it is entirely unnecessary. You lose composability and have to learn another language.

Re: Yesod 1.0 - a robust, friendly, high performance web framework for Haskell

#93

Post by papsosouid »

cies wrote: post #91

ULTERIOR MOTIVES WARNING: There is someone under the name "papsosouid" [1] on this thread with an account that's "coincidentally" as old as the thread itself, and has only commented on this thread so far [2]. He seems pretty acquainted to this community (he was quick to show me the HN posting guidelines) therefor I suspect he must have another account at HN. I also suspect he has created this new account especially f…

It isn't a co-incidence, I registered specifically to post in this thread as it is relevant to my interests. I posted the posting guidelines as I just registered, so had just read them myself (they are conveniently linked under the little box you type words in). I am not sure whether I should be flattered or creeped out by your obsession with me, but I'll assume both.

Re: Yesod 1.0 - a robust, friendly, high performance web framework for Haskell

#94

Post by cies »

papsosouid wrote: post #92
cies wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> FWIW, since I only really have experience with Snap: When comparing to Ruby frameworks, you could roughly say that Snap is to Yesod what Sinatra is to Rails. I've used both and this is pretty from my experience. If I can make comparisons I think: * Yesod is like Rails w/ haml+sass (but type-safety throughout) * Snap is like Servlets+JSP (especially wrt templating, besides that it is quite similar to Yesod) * Happst…

>Snap is like Servlets+JSP (especially wrt templating, besides that it is quite similar to Yesod) Snap offers heist as a default template engine. It is nothing like JSP at all, it is a pure html template engine like lift or zope's templates. There is no embedding any sort of logic or code in the template at all. >How is that a problem? I say: "Template Haskell and Quasi-Quoting FTW!" Using is fine, it is intended to…

> Snap offers heist as a default template engine. It is nothing like JSP at all, it is a pure html template engine like lift or zope's templates. There is no embedding any sort of logic or code in the template at all.

As a reference: also think Zope's templates and Lift are like JSP. But after closer inspection is see your point that JSP allows some in-template arithmetic that other don't.

> Yesod over-uses it where it is entirely unnecessary. You lose composability and have to learn another language.

I think we can safely agree to disagree on this one. :) Small DSL is not another language in my book; "templates" do not need the same kind of composability that "code" benefits so much from. As you say, it reduces "boilerplate and works well for that purpose" -- great!

Re: Yesod 1.0 - a robust, friendly, high performance web framework for Haskell

#95

Post by stepcut »

papsosouid wrote: post #62
stepcut wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that as far as the end user is concerned, there is not much difference between the warp, Snap, and Happstack backends. Speed-wise, warp is maybe 3 times faster than Snap and Happstack in the pong test. Though, how that plays out in real world is hard to say. But, I doubt anyone is running a Haskell web server right now that needs anywhere close to 30,000+ requests/second. Of course, speed never hurts. Even if…

Getting offtopic here, but what would you say is the difference between snap and happstack? I ignored happstack for the longest time because of the association with what is now acid-state. When snap came along I checked it out, and then more recently I looked at happstack and got a "so, it's pretty much the same as snap?" feel. Is snap just a better marketed happstack? What would your sales pitch for happstack be to…

I think you mean, "Snap is pretty much the same as Happstack", since Happstack came first, and Snap borrowed many ideas from it.

I would tell Snap users they should use Happstack because we have a shiny 3D graphic on our homepage. That is based on my in-depth research which indicates that many people decided to use Snap because it had the prettiest homepage. :)

Re: Yesod 1.0 - a robust, friendly, high performance web framework for Haskell

#96

Post by cies »

papsosouid wrote: post #90
cies wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This isn't reddit, please spare us the memes and +1s. Ok. Yr right, point taken. > I think the odds of such a contribution being well received are quite low given the hostility to that notion the developers of yesod still display. Hostility I've never encountered. I think the Yesod is super welcoming contribs (the recent discussion on pipes/conduits being a great example of that). > Given that I can't see any benef…

The hostility is on display right here, just asking how hard it is to use another template engine gets you a "hamlet is the best" response from one of the devs. Your list of benefits is a list of things you like. Telling me what you like doesn't make it so that I also like what you like. Yesod offers no advantages to me, as I would be using it without hamlet and without persistent, making it just an uglier happstack…

> The hostility is on display right here

7+ hours before you posted this an anwser to Agorak's question "how easy is it to switch templating languages?" was kindly given by Michael Snoyman (lead dev of Yesod).

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3817124

He says: "I don't think anyone's actually done it, because most of our users really like Hamlet. That said, switching should be a piece of cake. All you need to do is [...removed techincal details...]"

I cannot find anything that you describe as hostile.

I think this whole "hostility" thing you seem to perceive is simply not there. Just friendly open source collaboration for the greater good is what I see.

Re: Yesod 1.0 - a robust, friendly, high performance web framework for Haskell

#97

Post by papsosouid »

stepcut wrote: post #95
papsosouid wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting offtopic here, but what would you say is the difference between snap and happstack? I ignored happstack for the longest time because of the association with what is now acid-state. When snap came along I checked it out, and then more recently I looked at happstack and got a "so, it's pretty much the same as snap?" feel. Is snap just a better marketed happstack? What would your sales pitch for happstack be to…

I think you mean, "Snap is pretty much the same as Happstack", since Happstack came first, and Snap borrowed many ideas from it. I would tell Snap users they should use Happstack because we have a shiny 3D graphic on our homepage. That is based on my in-depth research which indicates that many people decided to use Snap because it had the prettiest homepage. :)

I didn't mean to imply happstack copied snap, but rather that my perception of happstack as "weird" was wrong and it is actually pretty much the same. The sales pitch request wasn't hypothetical, we've only been using snap for a little while and I actually am interested in any advantages happstack may offer.

Re: Yesod 1.0 - a robust, friendly, high performance web framework for Haskell

#98

Post by papsosouid »

cies wrote: post #94
papsosouid wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Snap is like Servlets+JSP (especially wrt templating, besides that it is quite similar to Yesod) Snap offers heist as a default template engine. It is nothing like JSP at all, it is a pure html template engine like lift or zope's templates. There is no embedding any sort of logic or code in the template at all. >How is that a problem? I say: "Template Haskell and Quasi-Quoting FTW!" Using is fine, it is intended to…

> Snap offers heist as a default template engine. It is nothing like JSP at all, it is a pure html template engine like lift or zope's templates. There is no embedding any sort of logic or code in the template at all. As a reference: also think Zope's templates and Lift are like JSP. But after closer inspection is see your point that JSP allows some in-template arithmetic that other don't. > Yesod over-uses it where…

Are you saying JSP and meaning something else? I can't figure out any way you could think that other than confusion over what JSP is. JSP is where markup and code are mixed together, using a special delimiter to start and end code parts. Just like ASP and PHP and hamlet and virtually all template engines. Lift/heist/zpt are the exceptions to the rule.

Re: Yesod 1.0 - a robust, friendly, high performance web framework for Haskell

#99

Post by papsosouid »

cies wrote: post #96
papsosouid wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hostility is on display right here, just asking how hard it is to use another template engine gets you a "hamlet is the best" response from one of the devs. Your list of benefits is a list of things you like. Telling me what you like doesn't make it so that I also like what you like. Yesod offers no advantages to me, as I would be using it without hamlet and without persistent, making it just an uglier happstack…

> The hostility is on display right here 7+ hours before you posted this an anwser to Agorak's question "how easy is it to switch templating languages?" was kindly given by Michael Snoyman (lead dev of Yesod). http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3817124 He says: "I don't think anyone's actually done it, because most of our users really like Hamlet. That said, switching should be a piece of cake. All you need to do is…

Yes, he posted that after Greg posted "no, hamlet is the best thing ever nobody can want to use anything else". Greg is the other yesod developer/maintainer. Notice other people have replied with similar sentiments. I think your love of yesod is blinding you.

Re: Yesod 1.0 - a robust, friendly, high performance web framework for Haskell

#100

Post by thomasdavis »

cies wrote: post #91

ULTERIOR MOTIVES WARNING: There is someone under the name "papsosouid" [1] on this thread with an account that's "coincidentally" as old as the thread itself, and has only commented on this thread so far [2]. He seems pretty acquainted to this community (he was quick to show me the HN posting guidelines) therefor I suspect he must have another account at HN. I also suspect he has created this new account especially f…

is this a schizophrenic auto replier?
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