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TIOBE : C overtakes Java as the No.1 programming language

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Re: TIOBE : C overtakes Java as the No.1 programming language

#51

Post by MattJ100 »

bad_user wrote: post #11
apl wrote: post #2

So Scala ranks behind the Lego Mindstorms language and Visual FoxPro in terms of community popularity? Sure thing. I know that valid results don't always conform to expectations, anecdotal evidence and intuition; there's a believability limit, though, which is being crossed here. TIOBE may be measuring its thing correctly , but in that case it's measuring the wrong thing.

The TIOBE index is measuring the hits these languages get on Google, Blogger, Wikipedia, YouTube and other search engines. See: http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/tpci_d... It's easy to see how this measures the wrong thing. A better metric for me is the popularity of languages in open-source software, which could be measured by (say) the number of popular/active projects. For instance take a look…

Take a look at http://www.ohloh.net/languages - you can sort by lines or commits.

Re: TIOBE : C overtakes Java as the No.1 programming language

#52

Post by buster »

noarchy wrote: post #38

Assuming that we trust these numbers, what does it say about mobile development that Obj-C continues to shoot up, while Java has lost momentum (though still high on the list)? There are more Android devices out there than iOS, but the development market seems skewed in favour of the latter.

You mean, despite that fact that Android is not actually Java(tm) and a lot of job offerings etc. may mention "Android Development" but not "Java Development", because they are in fact not the same, except for the syntax. As mentioned everywhere in the thread, the TIOBE index may not be optimal..

Re: TIOBE : C overtakes Java as the No.1 programming language

#53

Post by UK-AL »

danvet wrote: post #48
spitfire wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are still using Eiffeil and Overon? All the other results I believe (Even clipper and module-2), but that is a bridge too far.

It's used to teach CS undergrads programming basics at ETH Zürich. At least a few years ago ...

Not surprised since Overon was invented there...

Re: TIOBE : C overtakes Java as the No.1 programming language

#54

Post by thebluesky »

apl wrote: post #2

So Scala ranks behind the Lego Mindstorms language and Visual FoxPro in terms of community popularity? Sure thing. I know that valid results don't always conform to expectations, anecdotal evidence and intuition; there's a believability limit, though, which is being crossed here. TIOBE may be measuring its thing correctly , but in that case it's measuring the wrong thing.

Highly relevant: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3819221

Re: TIOBE : C overtakes Java as the No.1 programming language

#56

Post by pjmlp »

ajb wrote: post #16
Aedan wrote: post #10

Excuse my apparent ignorance, but people are still programming in C? Why? On which fields? Is there something C can do better than Java or C#?

Java and C# have 'managed' runtimes; it the language manages memory for you. This memory management bit cannot itself be written in the 'managed' language. Also, an operating system can't either[1]. Also, systems with hard real time requirements, such as audio/video, the signal processing code in your phone, wifi router, etc, are incompatible with almost all managed runtimes. [1] Okay, I know there are academic ones…

Funny, because there are research compilers that do exactly that.

Re: TIOBE : C overtakes Java as the No.1 programming language

#57

Post by davidw »

lkrubner wrote: post #37
bad_user wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The TIOBE index is measuring the hits these languages get on Google, Blogger, Wikipedia, YouTube and other search engines. See: http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/tpci_d... It's easy to see how this measures the wrong thing. A better metric for me is the popularity of languages in open-source software, which could be measured by (say) the number of popular/active projects. For instance take a look…

>So a better metric would be to aggregate the projects from > all popular project hosting services and count them, with > some kind of weight attached. Great idea. Do you think you might run with this idea? I like it as a corrective to TIOBE. On another topic: I know that TIOBE sometimes lumps several related languages together. Does anyone know if they are doing that with "Lisp"? What does "Lisp" measure? Common Lis…

Someone can and has run with it:

http://langpop.com

"Unfortunately", that someone now has a house, two kids, and more work than he can handle, and is thus looking to exit the fun and flame filled world of language popularity.

Based on Instagram's valuation, I guess I'd settle for a million for it;-)

Re: TIOBE : C overtakes Java as the No.1 programming language

#58

Post by blacksmythe »

apl wrote: post #2

So Scala ranks behind the Lego Mindstorms language and Visual FoxPro in terms of community popularity? Sure thing. I know that valid results don't always conform to expectations, anecdotal evidence and intuition; there's a believability limit, though, which is being crossed here. TIOBE may be measuring its thing correctly , but in that case it's measuring the wrong thing.

There are lots of kids programming in Lego Mindstorm. http://www.alaskapublic.org/2012/01/20/statewide-lego-roboti... "For the past four months, over 1,000 students across Alaska have been building robots – LEGO robots..."

I imagine based on the fairly few (if enthusiastic) posts about Scala on HN that Lego Mindstorm programming far outstrips Scala programming in the US.

Re: TIOBE : C overtakes Java as the No.1 programming language

#59

Post by soc88 »

apl wrote: post #2

So Scala ranks behind the Lego Mindstorms language and Visual FoxPro in terms of community popularity? Sure thing. I know that valid results don't always conform to expectations, anecdotal evidence and intuition; there's a believability limit, though, which is being crossed here. TIOBE may be measuring its thing correctly , but in that case it's measuring the wrong thing.

The problem with Scala (and Haskell, too) is that the search phrase TIOBE uses doesn't take different naming schemes into account.

For many functional languages "Programming in X" is a lot more common than "X programming"

Compare "Scala programming" and "Haskell programming" with "Programming in Scala" and "Programming in Haskell."

TIOBE is fully aware of the issue, but I guess the confusion and discussion creates just more clicks than an accurate representation.

Re: TIOBE : C overtakes Java as the No.1 programming language

#60

Post by cageface »

kev009 wrote: post #49
stephencanon wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is there something C can do better than Java or C#? I write systems code in C and Assembly for a living. I couldn't possibly do my job using Java or C#. In fact, as an experienced C programmer, I honestly can't imagine choosing to use C# or Java to do anything -- I'd rather be writing either in C or in something "higher level".

Both of these actually strike some good balances for the vast majority of "business programming" -- be it desktop apps, web apps, or mobile. C# is actually getting pretty high level (DSL stuff like LINQ). Java, not as fast but Scala goes way beyond that. Python, Ruby, Perl, PHP.. these are overused (except for solo work, prototypes, toys, glue) and in my experience fall down in teams.. but dynamic typing now seems co…

I think dynamic typing is a transitional technology. Designing a strong but sufficiently flexible type system is very difficult, so while we've waiting for the FP community to do the hard design work, we're more productive in Python or Ruby than in Java.
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