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Toyota's new $10k pickup

motortrend.com

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Re: Toyota's new $10k pickup

#91

Post by pauldenton »

systemBuilder wrote: post #62
westmeal wrote: post #25

Wish we could have shit like this in the US but we can't because the EPA and regulators are too busy making bank.

You're a fool if you think the EPA is at fault. A 2022 Ford F-series catalytic converter costs $824 at retail, much less in volume. The average car in the USA is 12 years old so that's $70 per year per car to have a catalytic converter. Each year almost 300,000 early deaths (1 in 1100) people are prevented by EPA pollution controls. People tend to die about 10 years early from air pollution deaths (MIT - 2013). The r…

https://www.toyota-global.com/company/history_of_toyota/75ye... I still remember when the auto industry said Catalytic converters were the only way and testified to Congress they weren't ready yet so they couldn't meet climate goals. Toyota through a holistic approach was able to meet the emission standards without a Catalytic converter, but was still forced to adopt one even if it wasn't more efficient than their current design as it was a one size fits all solution.

Sort of like saying a gym membership is good for everyone since it increases life expectancy, and not taking into account blue collar workers might get the equivalent of a workout from just doing their job, and that going to the gym after 9 hours of physical labor might do more harm than good for those people

Re: Toyota's new $10k pickup

#94

Post by tomcam »

DontchaKnowit wrote: post #66
swatcoder wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A vehicle's primary use is take people and objects from point A to B, and do so reliably Car longevity increased a ton in the last several decades years, and so "something that moves" isn't as central a motivation for new car sales anymore. If they just need something that moves, buyers can find countless used cars that still run and will keep doing so for hundreds of thousands of more miles. It's tough to compete…

Dude the delta between new and used cars right now is virtually nothing. You can get a 2012 tacoma with 200k miles on it for like 28k or a brand new 2023 tacoma for 35k. New is a better deal just based on the projected mechanical life of the car. Dont need fancy features to sell it

Try actually finding that new Tacoma

Re: Toyota's new $10k pickup

#96

Post by ponector »

devilbunny wrote: post #85
rurp wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I missing something or is this regulation as dumb as I think it is? It seems to have the effect of replacing a bunch of small trucks on the road with giant trucks that get much worse mileage overall.

CAFE regs also killed the station wagon (estate for you Brits) in the US. Being regulated as cars, station wagons murdered the manufacturers' averages - but minivans, which barely existed in the US (other than the VW Bus) before the mid-80s, were light trucks and so had different (lower) standards. My mom's 1987 minivan got worse mileage than the 1980 station wagon it replaced, and the only advantage it had was that…

Are wagons killed? Many european cars have versions both sedan and wagon. Wagons just not popular anymore. Look like everyone wants a SUV these days.

Re: Toyota's new $10k pickup

#97

Post by fragmede »

diogenescynic wrote: post #88
MarkusWandel wrote: post #16

In other words, a pickup truck! Not a giant SUV masquerading as one, with a 5ft bed and 5-passenger luxury car cab, with price to match. I'm old enough to remember normal pickup trucks, affordable for actual "work" use, with bench seating for three, full 8x4 bed with half ton cargo capacity and not much else.

Every year car models get bigger and heavier. If you compare the original Tacoma to a 2023 Tacoma they look like totally different trucks. A new Tacoma looks bigger than the original Tundra. I think vehicles should be taxed by weight, length, width, and height. The bigger the vehicle the more likely to cause an accident and the heavier the more likely for the accident to be severe.

> I think vehicles should be taxed by weight, length, width, and height

Roughly speaking, they are. Unfortunately, the system didn't quite get the memo, so there are two classes of vehicles based on size here; car, and truck. small trucks, like we are discussing here would fit into the car category. unfortunately, because they fit into the car category, they have to follow the car rules, which they can't, which means they don't exist. all the bigger vehicles fit into the truck category, which has more lax standards about certain things, and which is why we have such big SUVs.

Re: Toyota's new $10k pickup

#99

Post by roelschroeven »

paulddraper wrote: post #70
gsk22 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why the scare quotes? Are we still pretending climate change isn't real? The rest of your point is totally valid (CAFE is a textbook example of well-intentioned regulations backfiring spectacularly). But the climate denier nonsense kinda spoils the message.

> Are we still pretending climate change isn't real? We are pretending that what the government is interested in isn't climate change.

I guess it would be clearer if the scare quotes where around the whole "saving us from climate change".

Re: Toyota's new $10k pickup

#100

Post by tonyedgecombe »

callalex wrote: post #79
westmeal wrote: post #25

Wish we could have shit like this in the US but we can't because the EPA and regulators are too busy making bank.

It is not the EPA emissions regulations that caused the problem of gigantic, expensive trucks. It’s a combination of NTSB safety requirements for price and CAFE fuel efficiency requirements for size.

The safety regulations can't be working though as road traffic fatalities are increasing.
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