TIOBE : C overtakes Java as the No.1 programming language • Hacker News Board

Re: TIOBE : C overtakes Java as the No.1 programming language

#41

Post by andyzweb » Mon, Apr 09, 2012, 5:28 PM UTC

bad_user wrote: post #11

apl wrote: post #2

So Scala ranks behind the Lego Mindstorms language and Visual FoxPro in terms of community popularity? Sure thing. I know that valid results don't always conform to expectations, anecdotal evidence and intuition; there's a believability limit, though, which is being crossed here. TIOBE may be measuring its thing correctly , but in that case it's measuring the wrong thing.

The TIOBE index is measuring the hits these languages get on Google, Blogger, Wikipedia, YouTube and other search engines. See: http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/tpci_d... It's easy to see how this measures the wrong thing. A better metric for me is the popularity of languages in open-source software, which could be measured by (say) the number of popular/active projects. For instance take a look…

amount of open source code written in a particular language ≠ that language's popularity

Re: TIOBE : C overtakes Java as the No.1 programming language

#42

Post by octopus » Mon, Apr 09, 2012, 5:35 PM UTC

sophacles wrote: post #21

Aedan wrote: post #10

Excuse my apparent ignorance, but people are still programming in C? Why? On which fields? Is there something C can do better than Java or C#?

Off the top of my head, big important projects written in C, which are still actively developed: * Linux * GNU * Apache * Ruby * Python * nginx * mysql * posgresql * Redis * VMWare * OpenSSL * Almost everything "embedded" Because C allows extreme control and performance. Anecdotally, a lot of people write in higher level languages, then rewrite critical bits in C for that speed boost. In many cases they just start at…

As a side note a lot of codes ported to C for running on HPC clusters will end up re-implemented in Fortran (I'm talking about Fortran 95/2003/2008 ... ).

Re: TIOBE : C overtakes Java as the No.1 programming language

#43

Post by dwc » Mon, Apr 09, 2012, 5:36 PM UTC

bad_user wrote: post #11

apl wrote: post #2

So Scala ranks behind the Lego Mindstorms language and Visual FoxPro in terms of community popularity? Sure thing. I know that valid results don't always conform to expectations, anecdotal evidence and intuition; there's a believability limit, though, which is being crossed here. TIOBE may be measuring its thing correctly , but in that case it's measuring the wrong thing.

The TIOBE index is measuring the hits these languages get on Google, Blogger, Wikipedia, YouTube and other search engines. See: http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/tpci_d... It's easy to see how this measures the wrong thing. A better metric for me is the popularity of languages in open-source software, which could be measured by (say) the number of popular/active projects. For instance take a look…

I would expect open source projects to have a bias toward languages inside the open source ecosystem. Specifically, languages that are open source themselves, or are historically popular within open source operating systems. I would not expect a survey of languages on the proprietary side to match very well.

That said, you wrote "a better metric" and I agree.

Re: TIOBE : C overtakes Java as the No.1 programming language

#44

Post by derleth » Mon, Apr 09, 2012, 5:42 PM UTC

signa11 wrote: post #31

Aedan wrote: post #10

Excuse my apparent ignorance, but people are still programming in C? Why? On which fields? Is there something C can do better than Java or C#?

lot's of code running on almost all networking gear is 'C'. examples would be ios (csco), junos (jnpr) etc. etc. starent-networks (acquired by csco) which is a pretty significant player in mobile-wireless is also 99% 'C' based.

> 'C'

Why the quotes?

Re: TIOBE : C overtakes Java as the No.1 programming language

#45

Post by BrandonM » Mon, Apr 09, 2012, 6:29 PM UTC

Aedan wrote: post #10

Excuse my apparent ignorance, but people are still programming in C? Why? On which fields? Is there something C can do better than Java or C#?

Most languages' canonical implementations are written in C, including Java, Python, and Ruby.

Re: TIOBE : C overtakes Java as the No.1 programming language

#46

Post by eliben » Mon, Apr 09, 2012, 6:36 PM UTC

draegtun wrote: post #24

eliben wrote: post #15

Please, please, stop with this TIOBE nonsense. This index is a joke - can't someone with a burning desire for a weekend project create an open-sourced index website and engage with other hackers to incrementally improve it?

The Transparent Language Popularity Index is an opensource alternative: http://lang-index.sourceforge.net/

Thanks!

Re: TIOBE : C overtakes Java as the No.1 programming language

#47

Post by vicobt » Mon, Apr 09, 2012, 6:54 PM UTC

I didnt read everyones comments but i c an underlying trend hia. Mst of you are nt cnsidring dat maybe d rankin matrices r msred bsed on nt jst hw popular d lang is bt also on hw it ranks wit oda lngs in its paradim usin svrl fnctnl variabls.Lngs r nt borns equal.

Re: TIOBE : C overtakes Java as the No.1 programming language

#48

Post by danvet » Mon, Apr 09, 2012, 7:16 PM UTC

spitfire wrote: post #30

draegtun wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Transparent Language Popularity Index is an opensource alternative: http://lang-index.sourceforge.net/

People are still using Eiffeil and Overon? All the other results I believe (Even clipper and module-2), but that is a bridge too far.

It's used to teach CS undergrads programming basics at ETH Zürich. At least a few years ago ...

Re: TIOBE : C overtakes Java as the No.1 programming language

#49

Post by kev009 » Mon, Apr 09, 2012, 7:28 PM UTC

stephencanon wrote: post #22

Aedan wrote: post #10

Excuse my apparent ignorance, but people are still programming in C? Why? On which fields? Is there something C can do better than Java or C#?

> Is there something C can do better than Java or C#? I write systems code in C and Assembly for a living. I couldn't possibly do my job using Java or C#. In fact, as an experienced C programmer, I honestly can't imagine choosing to use C# or Java to do anything -- I'd rather be writing either in C or in something "higher level".

Both of these actually strike some good balances for the vast majority of "business programming" -- be it desktop apps, web apps, or mobile. C# is actually getting pretty high level (DSL stuff like LINQ). Java, not as fast but Scala goes way beyond that.

Python, Ruby, Perl, PHP.. these are overused (except for solo work, prototypes, toys, glue) and in my experience fall down in teams.. but dynamic typing now seems completely asinine to me after slinging Scala for the past handful of months.

Re: TIOBE : C overtakes Java as the No.1 programming language

#50

Post by davesims » Mon, Apr 09, 2012, 8:33 PM UTC

spullara wrote: post #27

davesims wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As Javascript's is cannibalized by node, jquery, ember, etc., etc., etc.

None of those are languages. CoffeeScript does come to mind though.

Yes, I understand those are frameworks not languages. The point was that since TIOBE indexes against the word 'javascript' and not 'node,' etc. I think it's possible that JavaScript's relative usage is obscured.

This is purely anecdotal on my part but it seem to me I see many posts or articles talking about 'writing an app in node.js' or 'the UI was written in jQuery' rather than 'written in JavaScript.' This seems to me a phenomena more or less unique to JavaScript.