Live data from Hacker News

U.S. military members' personal data being sold by online brokers

axios.com

21–30 of 195 posts

Re: U.S. military members' personal data being sold by online brokers

#21
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is treating the SSN as a username and a password. It should not be the only information required to authenticate people.

It should be used for your social security account and nothing else.

What should we use for all the other government services that need to uniquely identify you?

(This a trick question, not a rabbit hole you actually want to go down, because no matter what you suggest, I'll happily poke a thousand holes in it.)

Re: U.S. military members' personal data being sold by online brokers

#22

I heard this on NPR and I appreciate the avenue by which the red flag is being raised, but it bothers the shit out of me, because EVERYONE'S personal data is being sold by online brokers. The implication that their data is more important or something just seems like a ploy to get more eyeballs on the research.

> The implication that their data is more important or something just seems like a ploy to get more eyeballs on the research.

If I had to guess at a motivation, it's jockeying for reasons for congress to care about data privacy issues.

I am sure some enterprising person is going to purchase all the data on members of congress and release it at some point.

Re: U.S. military members' personal data being sold by online brokers

#23
post #3

I'm sure the military still has a SSN field on EVERY. SINGLE. FORM. they have you fill out while you're in the service. There was talk of replacing that with a "service number" but somehow I doubt they've got around to it yet. Between VA employees leaving laptops full of PII laying around and that big OPM leak several years ago, I apparently have no private life.

There are DOD ID numbers, but they've updated the forms to just ask for both.

Re: U.S. military members' personal data being sold by online brokers

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be used for your social security account and nothing else.

Huh. As a member of a generation that has grown up tacitly understanding that social security will very likely be insolvent/cancelled by the time that we're old enough to qualify for it, and thus we shouldn't rely on it whatsoever—it's surreal to consciously connect these two concepts. For me, "social security number" is just the name for the ID number that so many of us have and are used to writing everywhere. The n…

> social security will very likely be insolvent/cancelled by the time that we're old enough to qualify for it

This is not true, it's propaganda promoted by rich people who want to get rid of social security. It could be eliminated for political reasons, but spreading this idea that it's going to "run out of money" only makes that more likely. The government cannot run out of its own money. It can cause inflation, but continuing to pay social security benefits is not going to suddenly cause massive inflation. The only way social security could end is if politicians and voters decide they don't want it anymore.

Re: U.S. military members' personal data being sold by online brokers

#25
post #3

I'm sure the military still has a SSN field on EVERY. SINGLE. FORM. they have you fill out while you're in the service. There was talk of replacing that with a "service number" but somehow I doubt they've got around to it yet. Between VA employees leaving laptops full of PII laying around and that big OPM leak several years ago, I apparently have no private life.

There are DOD ID numbers, but they've updated the forms to just ask for both.

... sounds like DoD.

Re: U.S. military members' personal data being sold by online brokers

#26

I heard this on NPR and I appreciate the avenue by which the red flag is being raised, but it bothers the shit out of me, because EVERYONE'S personal data is being sold by online brokers. The implication that their data is more important or something just seems like a ploy to get more eyeballs on the research.

Service members are uniquely vulnerable. They are employed by the government which makes them a target of hostile foreign powers, and they're often ordered to give away their personal information while in service often out of habit and not out any genuine need to have the service members SSN.

All very correct, and to add to this as someone who's had direct consequences due to my information being sold: we have more sensitive personal information, and that information is more sensitive than that of an average civilian.

The holy Grail of documents is the DD-214, which has every single piece of sensitive personal information a civilian has, all in one place, and we are REQUIRED to keep it indefinitely, to present it under a large number of circumstances. It's a complete identity package; full name, signature, photo, work history, residence history, dates, personal description, mother's maiden name, date of birth, location of birth, name of birth hospital and doctor. Then there's security clearance paperwork, which may be even worse, extensive un-redacted medical records, etc.

All of these documents are viewed hundreds of times by hundreds of people during a military career, scanned, photocopied, emailed, printed, all without any sort of authorization or even knowledge by the service member. It's legitimately scary. And then after you're out, all of this information is managed by the VA by people who have nearly unrestricted access to it, and in my case along with thousands of others, put on a thumb drive and taken home and sold to a broker. It's a life ruiner.

Re: U.S. military members' personal data being sold by online brokers

#27
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is treating the SSN as a username and a password. It should not be the only information required to authenticate people.

It should be used for your social security account and nothing else.

It's used for everything here in Norway: banks, insurance companies, tax, social security, health, etc. It's just a Globally Unique Identifier not a password, it doesn't grant you access.

Re: U.S. military members' personal data being sold by online brokers

#28

I heard this on NPR and I appreciate the avenue by which the red flag is being raised, but it bothers the shit out of me, because EVERYONE'S personal data is being sold by online brokers. The implication that their data is more important or something just seems like a ploy to get more eyeballs on the research.

> The implication that their data is more important or something just seems like a ploy to get more eyeballs on the research.

So? Their data IS more important from a national security perspective, as the study suggests. If you handle nukes, your personal information would probably be more valuable than the data of someone flipping burgers at McD.

If this framing - 'the data brokerage industry is in itself a threat to national security' - forces congress to better regulate the industry, I think it is a win even if the regulations will only target military folks. It's a foot-in-the-door and objectively a good thing for the US national security.

Re: U.S. military members' personal data being sold by online brokers

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh. As a member of a generation that has grown up tacitly understanding that social security will very likely be insolvent/cancelled by the time that we're old enough to qualify for it, and thus we shouldn't rely on it whatsoever—it's surreal to consciously connect these two concepts. For me, "social security number" is just the name for the ID number that so many of us have and are used to writing everywhere. The n…

> social security will very likely be insolvent/cancelled by the time that we're old enough to qualify for it This is not true, it's propaganda promoted by rich people who want to get rid of social security. It could be eliminated for political reasons, but spreading this idea that it's going to "run out of money" only makes that more likely. The government cannot run out of its own money. It can cause inflation, but…

>The government cannot run out of its own money. It can cause inflation, but continuing to pay social security benefits is not going to suddenly cause massive inflation.

Social security is a massive portion of federal spending, indefinitely printing money to fund it is not sustainable and will cause significant inflation

Re: U.S. military members' personal data being sold by online brokers

#30
post #10
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is treating the SSN as a username and a password. It should not be the only information required to authenticate people.

The US military does not use the SSN as a username or a password. They've had smartcards, even on Linux, as far back as 20 years ago or more. Users without smartcards have to go through 2FA with a username/password combination and codes over SMS or proper TOTP (depending on agency). The problem is that the entire Department of Defense is still very much a paper-oriented organization, and they got rid of service numbe…

You've hit the nail mostly on the head. Paper is a problem, for obvious reasons, especially the amount of triplicate hand filled forms that require all of your PII every time. The second issue is access control vs. expediency. Millions of people, all over the world, can digitally access huge amounts of your personal information at a whim, by only having your name, or your military email address.

This is an important requirement for quickly checking on a person or their orders or their training status, but at the sacrifice of personal information security for you. It gets even worse going to the VA, which I can say from personal experience, will happily allow just about anyone to have whatever information they want about you. I got a happy surprise letter from them stating that my DD-214, a super identity document, containing information found on a birth certificate, a social security card, a driver's license, plus so much more, had been put on a thumb drive by a third party contractor, along with thousands of other service members info, and sold to a dark web information broker. So, the problem is just that it's to the military's benefit to not protect you.

Post reply on HN