Out-braking the ABS myth [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: Out-braking the ABS myth [video]

#91

Post by kimixa » Mon, Nov 06, 2023, 11:01 PM UTC

grecy wrote: post #37

rqtwteye wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"In emergency situations I break with full force without hesitation. This has lead to multiple avoided crashes and TBH two back collisions. Once I pushed so hard the break light sensor had to be replaced." I think full braking should be part of driver training. A lot of people I know are very hesitant to brake full force and I think a lot of accidents happen because people don't really brake all out when needed. As f…

> I think full braking should be part of driver training I thought it was. I distinctly remember my Dad telling me to slam on the brakes while teaching me to drive. I pushed them hard, but nothing crazy. He said to get up to speed and kick the pedal through the floor and hold it there. Older car, full lockup and skid for a good distance. We did that more than once. Now 25 years later, I do exactly the same thing ever…

It definitely is as part of the UK driving test, though they normally tell you it's coming up and intentionally take you to a quiet back road and make sure it's completely empty first. In my test the instructor told me to keep driving until they wacked their clipboard on the dash, then I had to STOP as quickly as possible, and you'd fail if you didn't apply heavy brakes quick enough. And as this is common in the test it was gone over a few times by my instructor to prepare.

Though they also checked the car I was using had ABS first, they might have had a slightly different process otherwise? Though in the UK it's common to have a professional driving instructor with their own car you'd use for learning and borrow for the test, so there was likely an expected minimum age and spec of car people were doing their tests in.

Re: Out-braking the ABS myth [video]

#92

Post by ek_erilaz » Mon, Nov 06, 2023, 11:02 PM UTC

sojournerc wrote: post #42

rqtwteye wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"In emergency situations I break with full force without hesitation. This has lead to multiple avoided crashes and TBH two back collisions. Once I pushed so hard the break light sensor had to be replaced." I think full braking should be part of driver training. A lot of people I know are very hesitant to brake full force and I think a lot of accidents happen because people don't really brake all out when needed. As f…

My driver's education in Colorado included going out on a frozen lake and practicing counter-steering into a slide, as well as a sense of how cars behave in slippery conditions. Very good skill to have for icy mountain driving. You can also find an empty parking lot after a snow storm and do donuts for "education". Just avoid light poles ;)

Same, for the "education"! In my hometown, lakes and rivers remained frozen for half the year. There were two such lakes separated by narrow dirt trails through the trees. Each winter, some kind soul went out there with their plow and created a drifting course that snaked around one lake, through the woods, wound around the other lake, and back. We'd take whatever vehicles we had access to and race there at night. I'll never forget careening around that track with the windows down, snow blowing in, music blaring, swerving around my friend's mom's minivan and trying to fend off another buddy in his rusty Toyota pickup.

I like to think we became safer winter drivers as a result.

Re: Out-braking the ABS myth [video]

#93

Post by chrisweekly » Mon, Nov 06, 2023, 11:05 PM UTC

j-a-a-p wrote: post #4

I did a anti-slip course where we learned dosed breaking to reduce break distance. And once a circuit racing course where the instructor just told me to break with all force available. The latter stuck. This instructor logic was, only if you are a pro driver you actually can outperform ABS. In emergency situations I break with full force without hesitation. This has lead to multiple avoided crashes and TBH two back c…

nit: "brake" (stopping force), not "break" (damage)

Re: Out-braking the ABS myth [video]

#94

Post by taneq » Mon, Nov 06, 2023, 11:05 PM UTC

j-a-a-p wrote: post #4

I did a anti-slip course where we learned dosed breaking to reduce break distance. And once a circuit racing course where the instructor just told me to break with all force available. The latter stuck. This instructor logic was, only if you are a pro driver you actually can outperform ABS. In emergency situations I break with full force without hesitation. This has lead to multiple avoided crashes and TBH two back c…

> only if you are a pro driver you actually can outperform ABS

I'd imagine even then, this only applied 20 years ago when ABS was still relatively primitive. I've had only triggered the ABS on my ~2015 car a couple of times but I don't think I could have done significantly better than it even in a non-panic situation.

Re: Out-braking the ABS myth [video]

#95

Post by jakeinspace » Mon, Nov 06, 2023, 11:16 PM UTC

rqtwteye wrote: post #21

j-a-a-p wrote: post #4

I did a anti-slip course where we learned dosed breaking to reduce break distance. And once a circuit racing course where the instructor just told me to break with all force available. The latter stuck. This instructor logic was, only if you are a pro driver you actually can outperform ABS. In emergency situations I break with full force without hesitation. This has lead to multiple avoided crashes and TBH two back c…

"In emergency situations I break with full force without hesitation. This has lead to multiple avoided crashes and TBH two back collisions. Once I pushed so hard the break light sensor had to be replaced." I think full braking should be part of driver training. A lot of people I know are very hesitant to brake full force and I think a lot of accidents happen because people don't really brake all out when needed. As f…

I got into my one and only accident less than a year after getting my first car, when another driver ran a stop sign. I was the one who tee-boned them, because they actually accelerated quite quickly out of the stop while I was going about 50 mph with right of way on a feeder road. I still can’t shake the feeling that I under-braked, although I did see some solid tread marks before the point of impact on the road. I don’t think it was a very avoidable accident on my part, but I probably could’ve hit them with less speed if I’d put all my weight on the brake. My back would certainly have appreciated it.

Re: Out-braking the ABS myth [video]

#96

Post by NikolaNovak » Mon, Nov 06, 2023, 11:21 PM UTC

pdonis wrote: post #86

j-a-a-p wrote: post #4

I did a anti-slip course where we learned dosed breaking to reduce break distance. And once a circuit racing course where the instructor just told me to break with all force available. The latter stuck. This instructor logic was, only if you are a pro driver you actually can outperform ABS. In emergency situations I break with full force without hesitation. This has lead to multiple avoided crashes and TBH two back c…

> In that case I saw a SUV struggling to stop in my rear view mirror. I had enough control to move to the right and have that SUV crash into the vehicle in front of me. As this example of yours shows, a key benefit of ABS (if you're not a professional driver) is that it allows you to steer as well as brake, by preventing the wheels from locking). IIRC studies have shown that the majority of accidents cannot be avoide…

This.

In advanced driving lessons, in both dry and snowy conditions, goodn driving instructors not only acknowledged but demonstrated, it is POSSIBLE to break better than ABS. But in an uncontrolled, unanticipated emergency (where you don't necessarily get to pick your breaking point and posture etc), ABS gives you steering control. It takes practice to utilize that ability, mostly people just focus and fixate in the obstacle ahead of them they are trying to not hit. But the miraculous, magical ability to steer with ABS is an absolute life saver.

Re: Out-braking the ABS myth [video]

#97

Post by ericbarrett » Mon, Nov 06, 2023, 11:22 PM UTC

rented_mule wrote: post #64

rqtwteye wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"In emergency situations I break with full force without hesitation. This has lead to multiple avoided crashes and TBH two back collisions. Once I pushed so hard the break light sensor had to be replaced." I think full braking should be part of driver training. A lot of people I know are very hesitant to brake full force and I think a lot of accidents happen because people don't really brake all out when needed. As f…

Shortly after buying a car, I always go a large, empty parking lot late and night, get up to about 30 mph and stop as hard as I can. I want to understand what it feels like before I get into a panic situation. I only buy a car every 10 years on average, so it's interesting to see the progress in braking. My current car (a 2014 model) stopped so quickly and so violently that it frightened me. Everything not tied down…

Bravo! More drivers should do this. It's also how I was taught to bed new brake pads and rotors, so it might actually have been good for your car.

Re: Out-braking the ABS myth [video]

#98

Post by _yb2s » Mon, Nov 06, 2023, 11:31 PM UTC

rqtwteye wrote: post #21

j-a-a-p wrote: post #4

I did a anti-slip course where we learned dosed breaking to reduce break distance. And once a circuit racing course where the instructor just told me to break with all force available. The latter stuck. This instructor logic was, only if you are a pro driver you actually can outperform ABS. In emergency situations I break with full force without hesitation. This has lead to multiple avoided crashes and TBH two back c…

"In emergency situations I break with full force without hesitation. This has lead to multiple avoided crashes and TBH two back collisions. Once I pushed so hard the break light sensor had to be replaced." I think full braking should be part of driver training. A lot of people I know are very hesitant to brake full force and I think a lot of accidents happen because people don't really brake all out when needed. As f…

Nowadays it would make sense for most people with ABS to learn "full braking" but people still need to know if they have ABS or not, because full braking is dangerous without ABS. Unfortunately, I think 99% of drivers, including those in older cars without ABS, aren't really sure what ABS is.

Re: Out-braking the ABS myth [video]

#99

Post by kuroguro » Mon, Nov 06, 2023, 11:32 PM UTC

lbussell wrote: post #32

I ride motorcycles on the track, and most track riders/racers disable or delete ABS on their bikes. The idea of ABS sounds great, but it’s often too primitive for high performance riding. On a hot summer day with sticky tires and a clean track, you’ll flip over the handlebars before you lock the front wheel. However, most ABS systems work by detecting the speed difference between the front and rear wheels. As you bra…

Pretty sure it is a legal requirement in a lot of places (EU, Australia, NZ, Brazil, India).

The only other place I'd turn off ABS is driving offroad, tho I hear that has improved a lot over the years as well.

Re: Out-braking the ABS myth [video]

#100

Post by pixl97 » Mon, Nov 06, 2023, 11:37 PM UTC

sbierwagen wrote: post #85

rqtwteye wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"In emergency situations I break with full force without hesitation. This has lead to multiple avoided crashes and TBH two back collisions. Once I pushed so hard the break light sensor had to be replaced." I think full braking should be part of driver training. A lot of people I know are very hesitant to brake full force and I think a lot of accidents happen because people don't really brake all out when needed. As f…

>I think full braking should be part of driver training. Also if you lose brake assist. I've read a handful of "out of control car" stories where the driver reported the brakes didn't work. Well yes, without power brakes it feels like stepping on a piece of wood. You need to apply a LOT of force to stop a modern car without power brakes, "putting both feet on the pedal and pushing with everything you've got" a lot. B…

Talking about "brakes didn't work" it always terrifies me when I see people just flying in heavy rain. I've done intentional hydroplanes in closed areas and even when you know it's coming it can be hard to resist the urge to panic.