Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Out-braking the ABS myth [video]

youtube.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 136 posts

Re: Out-braking the ABS myth [video]

#61

Post by Hamuko »

dsego wrote: post #55
Hamuko wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The instinct? I've never had that instinct since I've never driven a car without ABS for any extended period of time.

Right, but if the pedal suddenly starts pushing back, are you naturally expecting that? I was involved in three collisions where I failed to stop in time, and all three times the pedal pushed back. I didn't really expect it the first time. Talking about 90s and early 2000s cars, so not brake-by-wire.

>Right, but if the pedal suddenly starts pushing back, are you naturally expecting that?

Under hard braking conditions? Yeah. Especially since we have quite a lot of snow and ice here every year, you do sorta get used to the ABS feel and crunching sound.

I once had a close encounter on snow where some idiot came way too fast a downhill and slid onto my lane. Pretty sure I kept my foot planted on the brake while going as far right as there was road there.

Re: Out-braking the ABS myth [video]

#62

Post by justin66 »

briffle wrote: post #18
justin66 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is ABS a feature on their training truck that doesn't exist on the real rigs, or something? I've read about police receiving the opposite instruction: a reminder during training that they should keep their foot on the brake when they feel the ABS coming on. Apparently too many police were crashing because they'd lift, and attempt threshold braking as they'd been trained back in the day, when they felt the ABS coming…

All modern fire trucks have ABS. The ABS does allow better control if you break traction, but lenthens your stopping distance. They want their drivers to not break traction, and keep the stopping distance short. Big difference between a Subaru slamming into you because it couldn't stop fast enough, and a firetruck loaded with 1500 gallons of water, etc, slamming into you.

I suppose my initial feeling towards the idea that a driver can consistently better the performance of their vehicle's ABS is strong skepticism, but, I wonder if it's less difficult on a really massive vehicle. Or if the ABS on one of those more massive vehicles (reliant on drum brakes) is simply not as effective as one would like.

Interesting stuff.

Re: Out-braking the ABS myth [video]

#63

Post by pintxo »

dsego wrote: post #59
pintxo wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d it normal for cars to do this? Never experienced my break Paddel to push back.

Have you tried slamming the brakes to avoid a collision? It's not something that happens in normal braking situations. Also, not sure if it's a thing on most modern cars.

I‘ve certainly done it, both on the street as well as in training settings.

Re: Out-braking the ABS myth [video]

#64

Post by rented_mule »

rqtwteye wrote: post #21
j-a-a-p wrote: post #4

I did a anti-slip course where we learned dosed breaking to reduce break distance. And once a circuit racing course where the instructor just told me to break with all force available. The latter stuck. This instructor logic was, only if you are a pro driver you actually can outperform ABS. In emergency situations I break with full force without hesitation. This has lead to multiple avoided crashes and TBH two back c…

"In emergency situations I break with full force without hesitation. This has lead to multiple avoided crashes and TBH two back collisions. Once I pushed so hard the break light sensor had to be replaced." I think full braking should be part of driver training. A lot of people I know are very hesitant to brake full force and I think a lot of accidents happen because people don't really brake all out when needed. As f…

Shortly after buying a car, I always go a large, empty parking lot late and night, get up to about 30 mph and stop as hard as I can. I want to understand what it feels like before I get into a panic situation. I only buy a car every 10 years on average, so it's interesting to see the progress in braking. My current car (a 2014 model) stopped so quickly and so violently that it frightened me. Everything not tied down in the car was flying around. I thought I must have hit something, but I didn't. I did a few more such stops to try to get used to it. It still makes my heart race, but at least I know to expect it.

Re: Out-braking the ABS myth [video]

#65

Post by nh23423fefe »

I'm surprised he said, "people only brake with the rear"

My first day out with my bike, i was staring at my foot trying to figure out why i was in the wrong gear. I looked up and was heading for the median. grabbed fistful of front brake to massive stoppie. I got luck and didn't lay the bike now. but front brake was drilled into me by the safety course i took. i didn't even think

Re: Out-braking the ABS myth [video]

#66

Post by rqtwteye »

sojournerc wrote: post #42
rqtwteye wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"In emergency situations I break with full force without hesitation. This has lead to multiple avoided crashes and TBH two back collisions. Once I pushed so hard the break light sensor had to be replaced." I think full braking should be part of driver training. A lot of people I know are very hesitant to brake full force and I think a lot of accidents happen because people don't really brake all out when needed. As f…

My driver's education in Colorado included going out on a frozen lake and practicing counter-steering into a slide, as well as a sense of how cars behave in slippery conditions. Very good skill to have for icy mountain driving. You can also find an empty parking lot after a snow storm and do donuts for "education". Just avoid light poles ;)

“ You can also find an empty parking lot after a snow storm and do donuts for "education". Just avoid light poles ;)”

Me and my friends did this for hours after each snowfall. Great training. One of my friends hadn’t heard of your light pole advice and mangled his Golf GTI pretty good.

Re: Out-braking the ABS myth [video]

#67

Post by taylodl »

FortNine on HN!

I love it when two different aspects of my life collide!

For the HNers who don't know much about motorcycles, in the motorcycling world there's a big argument whether ABS is a net good or not. The old-timers tend to say "learn to ride your bike, you can beat ABS." Manufacturers site statistics saying ABS saves lives. This video is good in that it shows old-timer braking + ABS gives the best of both worlds. Somewhat paradoxically, in the world of motorcycles, even with ABS, just slamming on the brakes isn't the best strategy for emergency stopping. You'll stop faster with two-phase braking. That's why it's critical motorcycle riders practice emergency braking. You have to practice it enough to make it muscle memory.

Re: Out-braking the ABS myth [video]

#68

Post by wholinator2 »

justin66 wrote: post #62
briffle wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All modern fire trucks have ABS. The ABS does allow better control if you break traction, but lenthens your stopping distance. They want their drivers to not break traction, and keep the stopping distance short. Big difference between a Subaru slamming into you because it couldn't stop fast enough, and a firetruck loaded with 1500 gallons of water, etc, slamming into you.

I suppose my initial feeling towards the idea that a driver can consistently better the performance of their vehicle's ABS is strong skepticism, but, I wonder if it's less difficult on a really massive vehicle. Or if the ABS on one of those more massive vehicles (reliant on drum brakes) is simply not as effective as one would like. Interesting stuff.

Well an average driver probably not, but i might trust a professionally trained driver who drives everyday in high stress situations accelerating and breaking with maximum efficiency at all times.

Re: Out-braking the ABS myth [video]

#69

Post by latchkey »

rented_mule wrote: post #64
rqtwteye wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"In emergency situations I break with full force without hesitation. This has lead to multiple avoided crashes and TBH two back collisions. Once I pushed so hard the break light sensor had to be replaced." I think full braking should be part of driver training. A lot of people I know are very hesitant to brake full force and I think a lot of accidents happen because people don't really brake all out when needed. As f…

Shortly after buying a car, I always go a large, empty parking lot late and night, get up to about 30 mph and stop as hard as I can. I want to understand what it feels like before I get into a panic situation. I only buy a car every 10 years on average, so it's interesting to see the progress in braking. My current car (a 2014 model) stopped so quickly and so violently that it frightened me. Everything not tied down…

What are you planning on getting next year?

Re: Out-braking the ABS myth [video]

#70

Post by taylodl »

j-a-a-p wrote: post #4

I did a anti-slip course where we learned dosed breaking to reduce break distance. And once a circuit racing course where the instructor just told me to break with all force available. The latter stuck. This instructor logic was, only if you are a pro driver you actually can outperform ABS. In emergency situations I break with full force without hesitation. This has lead to multiple avoided crashes and TBH two back c…

When driving a car with ABS, all-out braking is the best option. You'll get the quickest, safest stop.

That same strategy doesn't work as well on a motorcycle equipped with ABS as you still need to preload the front tire before applying full braking power. As the video shows, this minimizes your stopping distance. Like a car, once you're fully on the brake then stay on it - the ABS system will take care to prevent wheel lockup and skid.

Post reply on HN