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Apple developer boycott of Feedback Assistant

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Re: Apple developer boycott of Feedback Assistant

#51

Post by MichaelZuo »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #47
changoplatanero wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah he's lamenting how poorly the external developers are being treated but seems like they are largely being treated the same as Apple treats its own employees

I found it sometimes frustrating as well. But my experience was that it depended on the engineer/team/screener the Radar went to. Obviously if it was a bug I found, I much preferred to talk to the engineer in person who maintained the code in question. There were plenty of teams that were very good about jumping on bug reports and getting right back to me. In fact, a decade or so ago at Apple this was more or less th…

What would the ideal structure look like in your opinion?

Re: Apple developer boycott of Feedback Assistant

#52

Post by walterbell »

latexr wrote: post #28
walterbell wrote: post #25

What would happen if some Apple developers moved their collective feedback to a Github repo where their bug reports were licensed as CC-BY-4.0, i.e. a license that would allow Apple to migrate content from the public repo to their internal radar? This would allow developers to have a public database of de-duped and triaged bugs, and it would allow Apple to either respond publicly (same as Webkit?) or maintain status…

Nothing would happen. Websites and GitHub repos for posting Apple bug reports publicly have existed for over a decade. https://openradar.appspot.com/

> have existed for over a decade

   Please note: Reports posted here will not necessarily be seen by Apple. All problems should be submitted at bugreport.apple.com before they are posted here. Please only post information for Radars that you have filed yourself, and please do not include Apple confidential information in your posts. Thank you!
Those look like a public mirror of some Radars filed at Apple, i.e. Apple already has that information. If enough developers stop submitting feedback (topic of this HN thread) and start posting bugs into a public repo FIRST, with a CC-BY-4.0 license allowing Apple to mirror the public bugs, then a boycott would have the positive side effect of showing-by-example how the feedback process could be improved.

> nothing would happen

As a counterpoint, there is a public Bugzilla for Webkit bugs, where the keyword "InRadar" indicates whether the bug has been mirrored to Apple's internal bug reporting system. If enough developers boycott Apple Feedback, could they use a Bugzilla instance for iOS and macOS bug reporting? If enough Apple users start referencing Bugzilla URLs for iOS/macOS production issues and purchasing decisions, could that influence Apple?

https://bugs.webkit.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=__open__&cont...

Re: Apple developer boycott of Feedback Assistant

#53

Post by AlexandrB »

neodypsis wrote: post #37
plorkyeran wrote: post #27

Reporting bugs via feedback assistant is sometimes required when you've successfully found a developer inside Apple who has agreed to fix your bug and they just need the feedback number for internal work reporting purposes. Submitting unsolicited bug reports are just a pointless waste of time. I wouldn't say I'm specifically "boycotting" Feedback Assistant; I just stopped using it because it wasn't doing anything use…

How are you supposed to find a developer inside Apple to fix your issue?

As with all modern tech support: complain loudly on Twitter/X and hope the issue gets enough traction that somebody notices.

Re: Apple developer boycott of Feedback Assistant

#54

Post by CamperBob2 »

kyriakos wrote: post #33
omnicognate wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never thought I'd wistfully look back on Steve Ballmer yelling DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS!!! Apple seem to view external developers as a kind of infestation. The systems and processes they subject them to seem designed to actively discourage them.

Stockholm syndrome with a hint of masochism. App developers seem to stick with apple regardless of what they are being subjected to.

When the bank robbers share their loot with the hostages, Stockholm Syndrome can't be too surprising.

Re: Apple developer boycott of Feedback Assistant

#55

Post by rado »

AnonC wrote: post #31

Someone please set up a website that can compose an email to Craig Federighi with these issues and let developers email him directly. Apple may not act on or respond to this collective Feedback Assistant feedbacks, since the system may probably be broken to the extent that Apple’s teams don’t even see or get these feedback reports.

Federighi replied with a suggestion to fix my issue. It didn't work, but it was cool anyway.

Re: Apple developer boycott of Feedback Assistant

#56

Post by ayewo »

walterbell wrote: post #25

What would happen if some Apple developers moved their collective feedback to a Github repo where their bug reports were licensed as CC-BY-4.0, i.e. a license that would allow Apple to migrate content from the public repo to their internal radar? This would allow developers to have a public database of de-duped and triaged bugs, and it would allow Apple to either respond publicly (same as Webkit?) or maintain status…

You mean something like this https://github.com/feedback-assistant/reports ?

Re: Apple developer boycott of Feedback Assistant

#57

Post by JKCalhoun »

MichaelZuo wrote: post #51
JKCalhoun wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found it sometimes frustrating as well. But my experience was that it depended on the engineer/team/screener the Radar went to. Obviously if it was a bug I found, I much preferred to talk to the engineer in person who maintained the code in question. There were plenty of teams that were very good about jumping on bug reports and getting right back to me. In fact, a decade or so ago at Apple this was more or less th…

What would the ideal structure look like in your opinion?

Ideally, daily BRBs (kept to an hour) with engineers attending.

If it turns out there are too many Radars to keep the BRBs to an hour then there are issues elsewhere.

At the same time, I didn't mention it above, engineers need to be allowed time in the product schedule to fix these bugs. As probably everyone knows, when a bug is kicked down the road once (because of scheduling constraints: hey, we gotta ship the software at some point!) it becomes easier still to kick it down the road when the next release dat rolls around (we lived with the bug this long...).

I think engineers and users alike would love to see more bug--only releases of MacOS and iOS. People still talk about how wonderful SnowLeopard was simply because it was a bug-fix only (mostly?) release.

Re: Apple developer boycott of Feedback Assistant

#58

Post by dwaite »

saagarjha wrote: post #2

Wait, you can’t file feedback from the web anymore? That’s incredibly stupid. Their feedback app itself breaks half the time, so I guess they wouldn’t be getting my reports then even if they wanted them.

I'm not sure what that is about, https://feedbackassistant.apple.com

Re: Apple developer boycott of Feedback Assistant

#59

Post by walterbell »

ayewo wrote: post #56
walterbell wrote: post #25

What would happen if some Apple developers moved their collective feedback to a Github repo where their bug reports were licensed as CC-BY-4.0, i.e. a license that would allow Apple to migrate content from the public repo to their internal radar? This would allow developers to have a public database of de-duped and triaged bugs, and it would allow Apple to either respond publicly (same as Webkit?) or maintain status…

You mean something like this https://github.com/feedback-assistant/reports ?

That is yet another public mirror of private Apple feedback reports. The suggestion is a public Bugzilla of iOS/macOS bug reports, similar to Webkit, that could be selectively mirrored by Apple to private radars, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38166908

Re: Apple developer boycott of Feedback Assistant

#60

Post by wackget »

As a developer, I flatly refuse to engage with Apple in any way because of their $100 annual fee.

I feel especially vindicated when stuff like this surfaces.

Imagine being the richest company in the world and having the audacity to charge people for the privilege of being able to contribute to your platform.

It is absolutely insane, and nothing will convince me otherwise.

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