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Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future

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Re: Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future

#291

Post by projectazorian »

garethsprice wrote: post #284

As an introverted tech nerd, the underground club/rave experience changed my life so much for the better, including numerous trips to Berlin. But, all culture is a product of its time - to freeze these venues in time as a Disneyland of the millennial experience is missing the point (especially with techno, an inherently futurist genre). It has been interesting to grow up with clubbing and see it go from an undergroun…

> It has been interesting to grow up with clubbing and see it go from an underground youth subculture that seemed to radically reinvent itself every year to a crowd of the same people but now middle-aged.

Society has aged and there are just fewer youths now. The millennial population boom let everyone ignore this reality for a few years.

And the youths who remain don’t have nearly as much time for clubbing; it hasn’t exactly become easier to get started in life lately. Not to mention that many zoomers who do go to clubs tend to loathe exclusivity so they wouldn’t even consider Berghain.

But the Berlin club scene long predates millennials and is not going anywhere.

Re: Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future

#292

Post by PedroBatista »

FFP999 wrote: post #275
PedroBatista wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This type of cultural movements require some deep genuine ethos. Rich kids on Adderall who dream of startups and VC rounds do not qualify, no matter how much they pretend not to be finance jerk-offs in shorts and sandals, reality is not on the side of SF being the center of anything like this. Any Rustbelt city has 100% more chances than SF and California in general.

See comments below. You are talking about SF in the past ten years: I am talking about the next ten.

I know but there isn't enough time in 10 years for this type of changes. SF is still fundamentally the same as it was 10 years ago. Only a cataclysmic collapse similar to Detroit would change SF in a way that people with money had left and only the ones the had to stay had enough hardship but also education to make something at the scale of what happened in Berlin, which in that case was an almost complete annihilation and 40 years of brutal communism clashed with an economic boom and freedom a few meters away. ( plus many other things )

Re: Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future

#293

Post by winternett »

Modern cubs are a circle jerk... They book artists that are hand picked from a small group of people that are affiliated with only certain music labels and business interests. This is why people like Paris Hilton and Shaq can suddenly headline shows across the world out of nowhere.

Night clubs now collude to make their own staff and those few select DJs money and fame, without introducing new and unaffiliated talent into the mix. They extort free labor out of unknown DJs and artists under the illusion that it is a big honor to play for free at a "prestigious" nightclub, while only the club is the one making profit, and clubs usually make a lot of profit at that.

Now they wonder why the model is failing after years of creating a deeply controlled circle of exclusivity. Money is funneled out of the music community to various other interests, and clubs rarely do anything to build communities that support and elevate their local music cultures. It's hard to feel sorry for a closed system like that failing. :/

Re: Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future

#294

Post by omgthink »

jliptzin wrote: post #124
danielfoster wrote: post #10

I’m not sure what sort of decline the article is referring to. There’s not a single reference to revenues or guest count for any club in Berlin, nor mention of any specific club in danger of closing due to lack of patronage. These clubs were great while the city was struggling, but now that it’s not, I can see why people don’t wish to tolerate the negative externalities associated with them. Hopefully most clubs can…

Yea, 3 hour lines, and then they obnoxiously don’t let you in anyway, for no obvious reason. Not shedding any tears here.

no obvious reason?

don't be drunk or on the way to getting drunk.

#1 pay attention. be there & listen.

#2 don't be too cool for this. in that moment, he's head of security and you might be a reason to call the police or someone who'll cost the crowd too much attention for no return.

that's it.

Re: Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future

#295

Post by FFP999 »

PedroBatista wrote: post #292
FFP999 wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See comments below. You are talking about SF in the past ten years: I am talking about the next ten.

I know but there isn't enough time in 10 years for this type of changes. SF is still fundamentally the same as it was 10 years ago. Only a cataclysmic collapse similar to Detroit would change SF in a way that people with money had left and only the ones the had to stay had enough hardship but also education to make something at the scale of what happened in Berlin, which in that case was an almost complete annihilati…

I guess we'll see. East Berlin was unique, but then again, every set of historical circumstances is unique.

I'd also argue that, by missing the boat (pun intended) on containerization and allowing the Port of Oakland to poach most of the shipping traffic, the city's original main economic engine shut down, and that the dotcom booms aside, SF's default mode for the past 60-70 years is "wretched hive of scum and villainy". The Summer of Love, the first counterculture to be called by that name, arose in Haight-Ashbury because the Haight was a slum at the time and a group of broke hippies could often band together to afford the rent on a house there.

Re: Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future

#296

Post by HellDunkel »

winternett wrote: post #293

Modern cubs are a circle jerk... They book artists that are hand picked from a small group of people that are affiliated with only certain music labels and business interests. This is why people like Paris Hilton and Shaq can suddenly headline shows across the world out of nowhere. Night clubs now collude to make their own staff and those few select DJs money and fame, without introducing new and unaffiliated talent…

Paris & co. dont get booked much in berlins techno clubs. The latter come and go. Few manage to stay longer than a decade. They are mainly brought into life by crews and djs trying to create their own niche. Few can make a living off that.

Re: Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future

#298

Post by omgthink »

Pandemic? Inflation? Rising costs? What?

There will be ups and downs, smiles and frowns

Share with me fairy tales or make-believe

There will be ups and downs, smiles and frowns

Share with me fairy tales or make-believe

There will be ups and downs, smiles and frowns

Share with me fairy tales or make-believe

- Snoop Dogg

Re: Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future

#299

Post by NathanKP »

tern wrote: post #199
local_crmdgeon wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn’t discussed enough. Williamsburg got lame because people stayed . The complaints are about transplants but it’s those that stay and age who change the vibe

Williamsburg is more than lame. It's surreal. Sit on Bedford and watch people for an hour sometime. Makes me feel like I'm in a simulation.

When Bedford between N 3rd and N 4th got redeveloped... well that was the end of the vibe.

Re: Berlin's famed nightclubs, losing customers, face an uncertain future

#300

Post by kodapoda »

projectazorian wrote: post #248
watwut wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the community and friendly feel is the selling point, then no you can not really scale that way and simultaneously keep the community and relationships. You have to choose between the two.

As if Berghain is still a community venue, as opposed to a bunch of ur-capitalist hustlers selling the idea of community to lost and naive souls. Community and scale do not mix. If the founders truly cared about community they would have wound the place up in about 2010 and done something new. But once people experience a bit of success greed inevitably takes over…

I see your point, but a community venue and constantly wounding up and starting anew also don't mix. It's an unfortunate outcome of the scale and the system we live in. If Berghain was a XII century monastery in an inaccessible place it could have maintained a community venue for centuries. A large club in the techno capital of the world has to resort to a different approach if it wants to maintain at least some level of continuity, status, and quality for its community.
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