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Othello Is Solved?

arxiv.org

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Re: Othello Is Solved?

#281

Post by Scarblac »

sudosysgen wrote: post #279
Scarblac wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That'll be very little help if the perfect game you have starts with 1.e4, but Magnus plays 1.d4. Yes, you're not losing, congratulations. You're still on your own against Carlsen now.

You can just evaluate whether or not a given move will change from a +1 or 0 position to a 0 or -1 position and play it from there. Perfect play in a perfect game means that the objective won't change - in optimal control theory this is called Pontryagin's Maximum Principle or the Bellman optimality criteria. A "value to go" function is enough to find the optimal solution.

Yes, but we were talking about a scenario where someone was just given the moves of a single perfect game. Not an oracle that gives you the -1/0/+1 of any position.

Re: Othello Is Solved?

#282

Post by nemo44x »

gmd63 wrote: post #227
nemo44x wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re not cheating you’re not trying.

If you're cheating, you're trying to lose the bigger game.

It’s a famous saying from NASCAR and sort of tongue-in-cheek about how everyone is probably bending the rules as much as they can and if you aren’t you can’t compete with those that are.

Re: Othello Is Solved?

#283

Post by sudosysgen »

Scarblac wrote: post #281
sudosysgen wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can just evaluate whether or not a given move will change from a +1 or 0 position to a 0 or -1 position and play it from there. Perfect play in a perfect game means that the objective won't change - in optimal control theory this is called Pontryagin's Maximum Principle or the Bellman optimality criteria. A "value to go" function is enough to find the optimal solution.

Yes, but we were talking about a scenario where someone was just given the moves of a single perfect game. Not an oracle that gives you the -1/0/+1 of any position.

Weakly solving a game requires a proof of optimality, which means an evaluation of all variations to prove their value. A sequence of moves in one perfect game isn't weakly solving a game.

Re: Othello Is Solved?

#284

Post by gmd63 »

nemo44x wrote: post #282
gmd63 wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're cheating, you're trying to lose the bigger game.

It’s a famous saying from NASCAR and sort of tongue-in-cheek about how everyone is probably bending the rules as much as they can and if you aren’t you can’t compete with those that are.

It's said in many contexts. I have no interest in a civilization in which the only skill we select for is ability to eat and deceive your fellow man. And I don't believe nature would have much interest in it either.

Re: Othello Is Solved?

#285

Post by elwell »

EGreg wrote: post #257
sonofhans wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is super cool. I’ve played Mankala for years and would love to hear more. It’s instructive to see old Africans playing Mankala. They play very fast. It can become more like poker, where deceit is a part of the game. If you spam down your stones fast enough sometimes you can skip a bowl, or drop an extra stone, in order to gain advantage. I’m not facile enough to play this way, and I play with family and so don’t…

When I was 14 and in my first year of college, the lady teaching my course in C gave me a project for an extra grade (because I had skipped a lot of classes, I think). Anyway, it was to program Mancala in C, which I did using Allegro Library I think at the time. Fun times!

Simpler times! I remember working on "Skateopoly", a skateboarding themed Monopoly, in middle school with JavaScript. I should code a fun little game, it's been a while...
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