Out-braking the ABS myth [video]
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Out-braking the ABS myth [video]
1–10 of 136 posts
Re: Out-braking the ABS myth [video]
#2The video correctly explains that ABS isn’t about shortest braking distance but more about a predictable trajectory and ability to avoid obstacles where possible.
It also takes a lot of guesswork from braking as you can simply instinctively slam the brakes and get good enough results.
Especially on a motorcycle slamming the brakes in panic without abs ends up in a crash.
Re: Out-braking the ABS myth [video]
#3This is about motorcycles, not 4-wheel cars (except for a very brief contrast between the two).
Re: Out-braking the ABS myth [video]
#4I did a anti-slip course where we learned dosed breaking to reduce break distance. And once a circuit racing course where the instructor just told me to break with all force available.
The latter stuck. This instructor logic was, only if you are a pro driver you actually can outperform ABS. In emergency situations I break with full force without hesitation. This has lead to multiple avoided crashes and TBH two back collisions. Once I pushed so hard the break light sensor had to be replaced. In that case I saw a SUV struggling to stop in my rear view mirror. I had enough control to move to the right and have that SUV crash into the vehicle in front of me.
In this line of thought, it can be life saving to be overweight. I was about 120 kg back then and therefor had quite strong legs.
Re: Out-braking the ABS myth [video]
#5Ok, this entire premise is silly. "Humans can do things that a computer can't" is fine and all, but the entire point is that most people are not practicing that style of braking and can't do it. Heck, the beginning is that most people aren't braking at all during a wreck. Thinking that "perfect braking" would be the answer feels very disingenuous.
And if you aren't covering how much speed was lost at the end of the stopping period your analysis is kind of worthless. Yes, you can stop faster with clean road and good execution of old stopping technique. Ignoring that the analysis is that that just isn't happening, but focusing on the extra 20 feet you travel with ABS ignores just how much slower you are already going for that last 20 feet. Even assuming you'd still be in a wreck, if you can reduce the brain to the panic of "slam brakes" and get a massive reduction in speed, that is still almost certainly good, no?
Re: Out-braking the ABS myth [video]
#6NB: this video is about motorcycles which have different dynamics than cars. I still think the point holds that in panic situation, it’s better to keep the reactions required simple as possible.
Tangential query - is the difference between ABS and no ABS greater or lesser than bad tires and top of the line summers?
Getting very expensive tires has quite a huge impact on stopping distance from what I’ve experienced. Having 255s up front also helps ;)
Re: Out-braking the ABS myth [video]
#7IIRC this is part of the driving test theoretical portion in Sweden, and then a mandatory "experience the ABS/non-ABS braking".
Not much of a myth, there.
Spoiler: without ABS, you'll just spin into the moose. With ABS you maybe wont stop, but the main thing is not being crushed by the moose.
Not joking about the moose. They put up cones and say this is the moose. Without ABS everyone spins like a carnival ride, and hits the moose.
Re: Out-braking the ABS myth [video]
#8NB: this video is about motorcycles which have different dynamics than cars. I still think the point holds that in panic situation, it’s better to keep the reactions required simple as possible. Tangential query - is the difference between ABS and no ABS greater or lesser than bad tires and top of the line summers? Getting very expensive tires has quite a huge impact on stopping distance from what I’ve experienced. H…
Family Member is head of training for very large fire department. For testing their truck drivers, if they ABS kicks in at all, you fail the test. They want you to go all the way up to the limit, and ease off the breaks slightly as the 60,000lb truck gets close to kicking in its ABS.
Re: Out-braking the ABS myth [video]
#9FortNine is great but the conclusion in this video is a little silly. The best result comes from threshold braking with ABS enabled. Yeah no shit.
As described in the video, motorcycles perform funny under braking. If you slam the brakes too fast, you have very little grip. ABS kicks in and you’re not stopping. If you progressively brake correctly, you transfer load to the front tyre and increase grip. ABS kicks in, but you’re stopping effectively.
Same is true in a car just way way less observable because you have more tyres, better grip, and your foot doesn’t slam the brakes as fast as your hand does. But you can play with this on gravel or on snow.
Now here’s the really fun part. Most motorcycle riders most of the time never brake with more than like 60% of theoretical threshold. Here’s a tkacs talk explaining this problem: https://youtu.be/CpaFeZ4xS8g?si=xI_29sLDY82UZziV
tldr: If you ride motorcycles, go out and practice. It may save your life.
For example, I once almost painted my pants brown braking from 80mph to 60mph because a car spooked me and the ABS kicked in in the middle of the freeway. I was nowhere near actual threshold, but the car made my lizard brain kick in and squeeze the lever too fast.
Re: Out-braking the ABS myth [video]
#10NB: this video is about motorcycles which have different dynamics than cars. I still think the point holds that in panic situation, it’s better to keep the reactions required simple as possible. Tangential query - is the difference between ABS and no ABS greater or lesser than bad tires and top of the line summers? Getting very expensive tires has quite a huge impact on stopping distance from what I’ve experienced. H…
Family Member is head of training for very large fire department. For testing their truck drivers, if they ABS kicks in at all, you fail the test. They want you to go all the way up to the limit, and ease off the breaks slightly as the 60,000lb truck gets close to kicking in its ABS.
This is called "threshold braking" (though it's often incorrectly called "pumping the brakes") and was/is standard practice for vehicles without ABS.