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Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

nytimes.com

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Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#701

Post by pc86 »

raincom wrote: post #130
creer wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No such thing as "an algorithm run amuck" - more like "another department run amuck". Someone programmed the thing, someone is running it deliberately.

Regulators fined Chase and other big banks for "weak controls". One way to show that these big banks have "strong controls" is to change parameters for these algorithms. Many legitimate transactions fall under structuring, layering, smurfing, laundering. After all, any goal of money laundering is to make their transactions appear "legitimate". Now almost all transactions (except for big businesses and people with few…

> Maybe, it is time to bank with local credit unions, as the latter allow mobile deposits.

I've never used a credit union and have had access to mobile deposits at everything from large multinational banks to small local ones for well over a decade.

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#702

Post by bombcar »

CaptainZapp wrote: post #647
mcny wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got a random call from Wells Fargo fraud department and I refused to give them my information. Escalated and the supervisor also pretended to not understand my concern. In fact, they placed a stupid hold. I went to a bank and the bank manager has to call them back and basically beg these people to remove my holds. These people in the fraud department don't even deserve to get found in a river.

Why didn't you politely suggest to call Wells Fargo' central phone number and have the switch board transfer you to him? Seems pretty much a no brainer to me.

It should be standard for all banks that if they have a fraud issue, they call you and tell you to call the number on the back of your card, and press 6 or something.

The fraud departments we have are so indistinguishable from actual phishing it’s amazing. They even send you a two factor code and have you read it to them! The text says they’ll never ask for it via phone! Embarrassing.

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#703

Post by webninja »

CapricornNoble wrote: post #612
orangepurple wrote: post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't. Every US Dollar touch point is heavily regulated. Back in the day Local Bitcoins was the way to convert crypto to cash but now its highly regulated and they implemented enhanced anti money laundering controls.

Hmmmmm, I wonder if there is some way we could setup a website like Local Bitcoins but decentralized? Like with ipfs or i2p or something...

The sellers who run it as a business might risk getting an unlicensed money transfer penalty depending on the country they are operating from.

Law: 18 U.S. Code § 1960

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#704

Post by gentleman11 »

phil21 wrote: post #613
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

right but how much emergency cash is needed? He had a transfer of 6000 plus whatever else? Should one have 6000 in emergency cash available? Seems excessive. Anyway lots of countries seem to think they are soon going cashless, so good luck with that.

I am a firm believer of having 10% of ones liquid net worth in cash or equivalent not gatekept by anyone but myself. This is from extremely hard won personal experience. Yes, it's a lot of cash. I don't mean keep it all under your mattress. Edit: A month of your total living expenses including mortgage/rent is what I would deem as both reasonable, and an absolute bare minimum. Not having this on hand would make me fe…

One day, pirates learned they could get better interest on their treasure by putting it into banks than they could by burying it. But many had forgotten where they buried it and were not able to take part in this new world

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#705

Post by itointegral »

ArabicBaklava wrote: post #667
dwighttk wrote: post #630

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah this sounds like this was the last chance to get current after many unmentioned-in-the-story deadlines

This is absolutely 100% correct, i didn't disclose all the details since it is not relevant to bank account freeze and closure which exacerbated the situation and put me in a place where i cannot do anything. This is some of the other unmentioned instances that made the situation harder. 1) Funds took a while to be in my account, it arrived mid of 1st week of semester. 2) Procedures from the international students of…

OP I'm really sorry this happened to you, I think you just got extremely unlucky. This entire series of events sort of reminds me of the Swiss cheese model (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_cheese_model). Glad to hear you're doing better now, did you end up contacting your university in order to explain how their policy (among other things) affected you? Your insight might help out the next person who gets extremely unlucky.

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#706

Post by bombcar »

dwighttk wrote: post #628
teddyh wrote: post #585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In order to sue anyone, you need money. To have money, you need a bank account. Therefore, if the bank takes your account, you can’t sue the bank.

Yeah, but they’ve never done it to someone who knows someone with money?

Then they fix it and make it good.

Which can be why it can be worthwhile to file suit in small claims court or even pro se.

Because then you’re in their legal department which often at least responds.

Or you get to foreclose on the local branch.

https://abcnews.go.com/Business/bank-america-florida-foreclo...

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#707

Post by maccard »

pauldenton wrote: post #499
maccard wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At least in the UK, NatWest debanked Neil Farage's account for his political views. Even its CEO resigned over her lying. No, a subsidiary of NatWest closed Farage's account when he no longer met the investment thresholds for the account he held. The CEO resigned for telling a journalist the above. That's not the same thing, at all.

They resigned for telling a journalist that because it was a lie. https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/britains-bbc-... Britain's BBC has apologised to Nigel Farage over a story it ran on the closure of his accounts at NatWest's (NWG.L) private bank Coutts, which the former Brexit Party leader had said was the result of his political views. The BBC had previously reported Farage falling below the financial…

You've made a jump from the article - it doesn't say it was a lie, it says that it wasn't accurate to say that Coutts decision didn't involve considerations about his political views. They're not the same thing.

No outlets have retracted the claim that he didn't meet the wealth criteria, and nobody has claimed that Coutts lied about him meeting the threshold. In fact, every outlet that I checked today stil claims he didn't meet the wealth criteria, and that the CEO resigned because she discussed details of a client's account with a journalist, e.g. [0]

[0] https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/26/business/alison-rose-natw...

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#708

Post by plagiarist »

fragmede wrote: post #574
mcny wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is a solution - not sure if everyone's ready to hear it yet: Decentralized finance. I want the pendulum to swing the other way. Everybody gets and gets to keep forever an account at the Reserve Bank. > self-hosted Ethereum wallet I'm sorry. The technology might be fine But I simply do not trust the people involved with cryptocurrency. Not just the scammers such as SBF, I don't trust the "victims" to make wise…

A crypto currency pegged to the dollar won't "go to the moon". If you're looking for that, there's USDT. Unfortunately, when trying to pick a coin, it's like trying to choose the best programming language. Each coin has its own ins and outs, there isn't one that is the best. They have their own time and place. A lot of people see this and want to use them in inappropriate places, but doesn't mean there aren't appropr…

I was under the impression that all of the "pegged to the dollar" coins are too fragile for storing money long term. But USDT dropped down to 94 cents during the crash I was thinking of when others more thoroughly collapsed. What's the difference there?

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#709

Post by pc86 »

raincom wrote: post #151
fencepost wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm very far from dealing with 500k personal banking transactions, but my immediate thought is that if you're doing so you're probably making mistakes. If it's revenue from sale of a company or similar, move it through escrow with your attorney. If it's a legal settlement, do the same. If you don't have an attorney but are dealing with hundreds of thousands of dollars, get an attorney. If it's income from trading or…

I just gave an example based on what I read on reddit, as I never deposited $500K in my life. I have no problems with banks' closing accounts, as I have accounts with a couple of local credit unions, who are nice to me. What caused the closure? A legitimate transaction that they find suspicious. Conjunction of two issues--not sending the funds back and closing the account without releasing funds to the customer--is r…

Perhaps we should stop spreading second-hand anecdotes from Reddit as authoritative examples of what can/has/should happen.

Re: Why banks are suddenly closing down customer accounts

#710

Post by bombcar »

Clubber wrote: post #631
close04 wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With such a critical activity that has the potential to destroy lives, "a bug" is not a good enough excuse. Hire a human to override the bug driven decision. These aren't bugs but conscious decisions taken by each bank because the fallout is on few enough customers that they don't need to worry. I've worked with/in enough banks to know someone intentionally drew a line and everyone who happens to fall under it can ju…

You're not wrong. Chase has 18.5 million checking accounts and 25 million debit cards, so they can afford to lose a whole lot of small customers while still saving a bunch of money with the automation.

That’s the danger with the size of these things. With 18.5 million customers, they could literally murder a couple dozen a year and it’d be hardly noticeable.
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