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Intel Itanium IA-64 Support Removed with the Linux 6.7 Kernel

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201–210 of 220 posts

Re: Intel Itanium IA-64 Support Removed with the Linux 6.7 Kernel

#201
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Itanic was hype from the word go. Intel tried and failed twice to make "VLIW CPUs that rely on 'sufficiently smart' HLL compilers doing the right instruction packings" a thing before Itanium came along (iAPX 432 and i860). I think someone very high up at Intel was in love with the idea despite its repeated failures. Alpha was clearly the future -- and Itanic ruined Alpha. We didn't even get to see it live on inside s…

I hadn't heard about compiler vs 432 before, any links?

All I know is the Wikipedia article references a crappy Ada compiler whose lack of optimization made it run slower than a 286:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_iAPX_432

Re: Intel Itanium IA-64 Support Removed with the Linux 6.7 Kernel

#202
post #102

The chip designers back then were focussed (micro-)instructions per clock (IPC), and everyone knew that RISC and CISC were going to hit a wall due to the ALU bypass network. A this is pretty true, they did, to this day, with some incremental improvements. Folks hoped that VLIW and advanced compilers would take us to the next level of IPC. What they didn't realize was that Itanium wasn't a true VLIW, and had that same…

I wonder how ARM, so relatively late with AArch64, was able to compel Fujitsu to take the instruction set to the heights of the top-performing supercomputer. I understand that there are exotic addressing modes involved. I'm not versed enough to understand. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugaku_(supercomputer)

Fujitsu was using their own in-house SPARC designs with custom vector instructions, but they could see that SPARC is dead and has no future. In fact, not that long ago they announced that they will stop sales in 2029 and support 5 years later: https://www.fujitsu.com/global/products/computing/servers/un...

So if they wanted to keep pushing their own designs they needed a new architecture, and ARM64 was their best option. The modern SVE extensions were co-designed by ARM and Fujitsu based on their HPC experience.

Re: Intel Itanium IA-64 Support Removed with the Linux 6.7 Kernel

#203
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also “notoriously weak” memory model even as multithreading was taking off, and > The processor may lose track of your LDx_L if you perform any memory access other than a matching STx_C, or if you perform a branch instruction, or if you trigger a trap (such as executing an emulated instruction), or if you execute more than 20 instructions after the LDx_L. (LDxL and STxC are locked load and conditional store)

That is pretty standard for LL/SC instructions -- you'll find similar constraints on the Arm equivalent insns. In practice this doesn't matter because you only use them in a limited set of handcoded sequences to implement the atomic primitives you actually wanted, so you can always be sure that your LL/SC loop obeys the rules and makes forward progress.

Was going to say. x86 I think has spoiled people in terms of what they expect in terms of memory model / consistency.

The answer is to be careful as a dev, and hopefully let the compiler and your libraries take care of the finer details.

Re: Intel Itanium IA-64 Support Removed with the Linux 6.7 Kernel

#204
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lesson here. Intel basically wanted to get away from x86 because it was licensed to AMD (and Cyrix) due to an earlier (and essentially unlimited) licensing agreement. In the late 90s, the likes of DEC, HP and Sun ruled the server and workstation space. Intel wanted in on this space and didn't want AMD to be able to produce compatible parts so... enter EPIC [1]. The projections (as you point to) were wildly…

Thank you, people usually miss the importance of Banias and Centrino. Banias was the Israeli team asking how do we make an incredibly efficient mobile CPU and the answer was finish your work quickly and go to sleep. In order to finish quickly, you had to be fast and efficient. Someone said well what if we don't actually go to sleep? IIRCC, Core was a combination of the Banias CPU architecture, an evolution of P3, com…

Isn’t Banias in Syria lol

Re: Intel Itanium IA-64 Support Removed with the Linux 6.7 Kernel

#205
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That’s how the fossil fuel industry describes it, yes, but that’s just them trying to avoid competition. Renewables, especially construction of new renewables, is a big, lucrative, growing business of its own. That’s actually a direct implication of the triumphant statistics people keep sharing about how much renewable power generation gets built out every year. So the “fossil fuel industry” is not unique in its ve…

The near outage this summer was more accurately described as wind being low enough that it almost wasn't able to fill the gap caused by the gas, coal, and nuclear plants going offline. Unlike wind and solar those are quite heat sensitive so you can get nasty correlated failures at peak summer demand, especially if the same weather system causes any kind of interruption to the cooling water supply. And, yes, renewable…

> The near outage this summer was more accurately described as wind being low enough that it almost wasn't able to fill the gap caused by the gas, coal, and nuclear plants going offline.

I can’t find any good source about your claim of thermal plants going offline in the September incident. ERCOT’s statements consistently blame the combination of high demand and low wind. The federal Department of Energy even issued an order authorizing Texas power plants to exceed normal emissions limits in such an emergency, which is inconsistent with your claim that they “go offline” in these conditions: https://www.ercot.com/about/legal/doe202c

> And, yes, renewables are becoming a big industry but it’s nowhere near as big as the fossil fuel industry and orders of magnitude less lavishly subsidized.

I thought we were done accusing each other of being shills. I’ll just point out that there’s significantly more propaganda in favor of renewable energy than in favor of natural gas or nuclear. But this is Hacker News and I am assuming good faith of you rather than accusing you of parroting talking points that were fed to you by Chinese photovoltaic manufacturers or annoying Swedish teenagers. And I am simply asking the same courtesy from you.

> Texas Republicans tried to ban wind and solar expansion because that party has been owned by the oil industry for decades

I think there is a good faith reason for such a policy. And while I do live in Texas and usually vote for Republicans, I am asking you to engage with me in good faith instead of calling me a shill. Are you capable of that or is the idea that someone can disagree with you about energy policy in good faith beyond your comprehension? Because you seem to be using this idea as a thought-terminating cliche.

Re: Intel Itanium IA-64 Support Removed with the Linux 6.7 Kernel

#206
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The near outage this summer was more accurately described as wind being low enough that it almost wasn't able to fill the gap caused by the gas, coal, and nuclear plants going offline. Unlike wind and solar those are quite heat sensitive so you can get nasty correlated failures at peak summer demand, especially if the same weather system causes any kind of interruption to the cooling water supply. And, yes, renewable…

> The near outage this summer was more accurately described as wind being low enough that it almost wasn't able to fill the gap caused by the gas, coal, and nuclear plants going offline. I can’t find any good source about your claim of thermal plants going offline in the September incident. ERCOT’s statements consistently blame the combination of high demand and low wind. The federal Department of Energy even issued…

Here’s one example of news coverage:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-08-29/texas-ask...

Re: Intel Itanium IA-64 Support Removed with the Linux 6.7 Kernel

#207
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How consumable-intensive is doped silicone production? Afaik, it's more strict metallurgy (materialurgy?): temperature, time, some physical process. Point being, I'd be curious on the actual cost of material inputs, if the price of solar panels crashes. How low can they go... and still be worth making?

> How consumable-intensive is doped silicone production? From https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38150735 , it’s very energy intensive. > if the price of solar panels crashes. How low can they go... and still be worth making? Boules are very storable, so it’s the financials of pausing production and storing materials until the price (or new tech) makes it profitable. Not the most socially responsible thing to do in…

The irony of intermittent solar's excess power potentially being soaked up by intermittent boule-manufacturing (followed by storage) is too delicious.

Re: Intel Itanium IA-64 Support Removed with the Linux 6.7 Kernel

#208
post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The near outage this summer was more accurately described as wind being low enough that it almost wasn't able to fill the gap caused by the gas, coal, and nuclear plants going offline. I can’t find any good source about your claim of thermal plants going offline in the September incident. ERCOT’s statements consistently blame the combination of high demand and low wind. The federal Department of Energy even issued…

Here’s one example of news coverage: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-08-29/texas-ask...

Paywalled and published before the September incident I’m discussing.

Re: Intel Itanium IA-64 Support Removed with the Linux 6.7 Kernel

#209
post #60
post #11

The Itanium sales forecasts never fail to make me laugh. Aged like the finest wine: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/Itanium_...

There's a lesson here. Intel basically wanted to get away from x86 because it was licensed to AMD (and Cyrix) due to an earlier (and essentially unlimited) licensing agreement. In the late 90s, the likes of DEC, HP and Sun ruled the server and workstation space. Intel wanted in on this space and didn't want AMD to be able to produce compatible parts so... enter EPIC [1]. The projections (as you point to) were wildly…

> AMD ... for 5-10 years completley ate Intel's lunch

That part didnt happen because Intel bribed OEMs. Just DELL alone was receiving ~$1B a year to exclusively sell Intel.

Re: Intel Itanium IA-64 Support Removed with the Linux 6.7 Kernel

#210
post #60
post #11

The Itanium sales forecasts never fail to make me laugh. Aged like the finest wine: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/Itanium_...

There's a lesson here. Intel basically wanted to get away from x86 because it was licensed to AMD (and Cyrix) due to an earlier (and essentially unlimited) licensing agreement. In the late 90s, the likes of DEC, HP and Sun ruled the server and workstation space. Intel wanted in on this space and didn't want AMD to be able to produce compatible parts so... enter EPIC [1]. The projections (as you point to) were wildly…

LOL I am always fascinated by the soap opera scripts some people come up when it comes to stuff like this. Y'all be so let down if you knew how boring and much more pragmatic/economics driven the real stories, behind how these sausages are made, really are.
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