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A brain injury removed my ability to perceive time

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Re: A brain injury removed my ability to perceive time

#41

Post by LoganDark »

reitanqild wrote: post #15

ADHD is sometimes wittily described as time dyslexia, and while I haven't met anyone who has described symptoms as bad as this and also know friends with ADHD who play music seemingly effortlessly, this article was still very interesting to me. I have understood and it also observed that meditation can help somewhat, and I wonder what else can help for people otherwise function well who struggle with time?

> ADHD is sometimes wittily described as time dyslexia

As someone with ADHD, this wildly misrepresents the actual disorder. ADHD itself has nothing to do with time, it has to do with executive function. Someone with ADHD can try to will themselves into doing something and simply not be able to. They'll try to make a command, and their body or brain will not listen to them. It will completely refuse to do what they tell it to.

This isn't supposed to happen; you're supposed to have control over what you do. You are supposed to be able to decide to do something, get up and simply do it. But with ADHD, it's not that simple. Even things that require no physical action are difficult, because it's not the actual movement that's hard, it's the decision-making itself. Hence "executive dysfunction".

Any "time dyslexia" effect, wrt scheduling and deadlines and etcetara, is just a symptom of it. The reason why people with ADHD procrastinate is not:

- because they don't know what time it is.

- because they don't know when their deadline is.

- because they don't know how much time they have.

- because they don't know how much time they need.

- because they don't know how easy or hard the task is.

It is because their brain wants to do something else more, and it's not urgent yet.

They absolutely cannot work on the task no matter how hard they try. They have not forgotten. They are not slacking off. They literally just can't do it. Their brain refuses to think about it, their body refuses to move for it. They don't have the willpower or the motivation for it. They are trapped. They are completely unable to make any progress because their brain will not let them.

That's what ADHD is.

Not everyone has it this bad, but ADHD is typically characterized by this happening for at least some things. It could be "showering more than once a week", it could be "doing the dishes before 20 of them have piled up in a big stack", it could be "preparing for a road trip days in advance". It doesn't have to be everything, and it doesn't have to be completely insurmountable, but if you have to have a complicated coping mechanism in order to manage to do something that you otherwise can't just decide to do, that's the disorder.

Re: A brain injury removed my ability to perceive time

#42

Post by abrookewood »

js2 wrote: post #19

Diane Van Deren is an ultra runner who had part of her brain removed to treat her seizures. It also affected her ability to perceive time and to read maps. She originally started running to self-treat her seizures, but eventually running no longer staved them off. Oddly, not being able to perceive time may have benefitted her running: > Dr. Gerber credits her endurance in part to her brain limitations. He says runner…

There's a book by Oliver Sacks that covers people affected by strange neurological disorders and it is fascinating [0]. I can't recall any of them being viewed in a positive light, but it's still worth a read.

[0]https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/63697.The_Man_Who_Mistoo...

Re: A brain injury removed my ability to perceive time

#43

Post by et1337 »

I think it's interesting that HN in particular seems to be fascinated by brain injuries, myself included. Losing brain functionality is a scary thought for people who enjoy using their brains all day.

edit: also I find my HN comment history to be a really good check on my perception of time. It's weird to see the random thoughts I wrote out in my down time. I ALWAYS think, "wow that was 3 months ago?"

Re: A brain injury removed my ability to perceive time

#44

Post by robbintt »

jwells89 wrote: post #17
gurchik wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean "in the same sense we do?" Pets are good at learning your schedule. They know when you normally come home, or when you feed them, and they start to get impatient if you're late in either. Sure, that example relies on another factor as a frame of reference (hunger, or the sun setting). But don't humans do that as well? Our sense of time shifts dramatically when we're kept indoors without the ability t…

My cat has a particularly keen sense for when dinner time is. He starts reminding me at 5PM, often on the dot. One could probably set a clock to it.

We actually just had a cat change her food seeking behavior by exactly 1 hour during daylight savings, which allowed us to mostly exclude her internal clock and time sense.

Re: A brain injury removed my ability to perceive time

#45

Post by haswell »

Gigachad wrote: post #34
haswell wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My brother is dealing with a TBI, and in a nutshell, it’s exactly that. The reason most of us glance at the clock is because we feel the passage of time and wonder what time it must be now. He doesn’t always feel time passing, and he could go hours before it even occurs to him to look at his phone or a clock. He relies on timers and reminders to keep things on track.

I think there is a lot of promising tech to help people out with this stuff. Just having your phone prompt you when you need to do stuff. I saw Google maps (perhaps recently) added a feature where you tell it the time you need to be somewhere and it will notify you when it's time to leave.

He uses his iPhone extensively to do things like this. I recently learned that the native Calendar app can do the same thing for scheduled appointments that have a location specified. Reminders can be set for things like: (can set multiple) "30 minutes before travel time" or "Time to leave", etc.

One thing he's struggled with is establishing the habits to set up these kinds of tools. There are often other issues associated with TBI and memory/new habit formation have been a challenge. Needs reminders for the reminders.

He's determined to find the right combination of tools/processes so he can create a guide to help other people use their current tools to manage this aspect of their lives. The potential is definitely there.

Re: A brain injury removed my ability to perceive time

#46

Post by throwaway47bs6 »

LoganDark wrote: post #41
reitanqild wrote: post #15

ADHD is sometimes wittily described as time dyslexia, and while I haven't met anyone who has described symptoms as bad as this and also know friends with ADHD who play music seemingly effortlessly, this article was still very interesting to me. I have understood and it also observed that meditation can help somewhat, and I wonder what else can help for people otherwise function well who struggle with time?

> ADHD is sometimes wittily described as time dyslexia As someone with ADHD, this wildly misrepresents the actual disorder. ADHD itself has nothing to do with time, it has to do with executive function . Someone with ADHD can try to will themselves into doing something and simply not be able to. They'll try to make a command, and their body or brain will not listen to them. It will completely refuse to do what they t…

Ahem. That's what yours is. Mine is straight-up time defiance. I stopped caring about clocks and deadlines. You speak for yourself: attentional difference is a cluster, not a fixed set of symptoms and behaviours.

Another example, I'm not short of motivation. It's just there are so many interesting things to work on.

Re: A brain injury removed my ability to perceive time

#47

Post by jaggederest »

Gigachad wrote: post #34
haswell wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My brother is dealing with a TBI, and in a nutshell, it’s exactly that. The reason most of us glance at the clock is because we feel the passage of time and wonder what time it must be now. He doesn’t always feel time passing, and he could go hours before it even occurs to him to look at his phone or a clock. He relies on timers and reminders to keep things on track.

I think there is a lot of promising tech to help people out with this stuff. Just having your phone prompt you when you need to do stuff. I saw Google maps (perhaps recently) added a feature where you tell it the time you need to be somewhere and it will notify you when it's time to leave.

> I saw Google maps (perhaps recently) added a feature where you tell it the time you need to be somewhere and it will notify you when it's time to leave.

Has been doing this for me since 2009, a lifesaver in unexpected traffic or construction.

Re: A brain injury removed my ability to perceive time

#48

Post by [deleted] »

512 wrote: post #23

I feel I have a slightly "time-warped" memory. I often can't tell whether something was two months or over a year ago, for instance. I believe this to be caused by depression, as I've seen many similar reports online. Life assumes a sort of "flow" state, as you don't care enough to pay attention to things. It affects my memory in general as well.

[deleted]

Re: A brain injury removed my ability to perceive time

#49

Post by LoganDark »

throwaway47bs6 wrote: post #46
LoganDark wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ADHD is sometimes wittily described as time dyslexia As someone with ADHD, this wildly misrepresents the actual disorder. ADHD itself has nothing to do with time, it has to do with executive function . Someone with ADHD can try to will themselves into doing something and simply not be able to. They'll try to make a command, and their body or brain will not listen to them. It will completely refuse to do what they t…

Ahem. That's what yours is. Mine is straight-up time defiance. I stopped caring about clocks and deadlines. You speak for yourself: attentional difference is a cluster, not a fixed set of symptoms and behaviours. Another example, I'm not short of motivation. It's just there are so many interesting things to work on.

> That's what yours is.

No, it's not just what mine is. It agrees with the clinical definition of ADHD, with the experiences of all who I have spoken to about it, including many friends, with multiple[0] articles[1] describing[2] the disorder[3], and so on.

Your time defiance is a symptom of a deeper problem. While I can't guarantee it's the exact same problem that I have, your disorder is certainly not just "time defiance", and if it truly is ADHD, the root of it will be executive dysfunction, as that is what defines the disorder.

[0]: https://gekk.info/articles/adhd.html

[1]: https://cohost.org/cathoderaydude/post/862603-when-writing-a...

[2]: https://invisibleup.com/articles/27/

[3]: https://www.autostraddle.com/you-need-help-your-adhd-is-fcki...

> For example, I'm not short of motivation. It's just there are so many interesting things to work on.

I could say the same thing. But I can't choose which thing I work on. I want to draw. I want to code. I have hundreds of unfinished projects I could have finished. I have hundreds of abandoned hobbies I could have stayed with. Sure I have "motivation", but it's motivation to do whatever catches my interest at the moment, not motivation to do any of the things that I actually want to do.

Re: A brain injury removed my ability to perceive time

#50

Post by throwaway47bs6 »

LoganDark wrote: post #49
throwaway47bs6 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ahem. That's what yours is. Mine is straight-up time defiance. I stopped caring about clocks and deadlines. You speak for yourself: attentional difference is a cluster, not a fixed set of symptoms and behaviours. Another example, I'm not short of motivation. It's just there are so many interesting things to work on.

> That's what yours is. No, it's not just what mine is. It agrees with the clinical definition of ADHD, with the experiences of all who I have spoken to about it, including many friends, with multiple[0] articles[1] describing[2] the disorder[3], and so on. Your time defiance is a symptom of a deeper problem. While I can't guarantee it's the exact same problem that I have, your disorder is certainly not just "time de…

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