i'm sorry was he benchmarking this at 5120x1440? like seriously do people really game at that resolution?
He is explicitly not benchmarking, just exploring the render pipeline.
Why Cities: Skylines 2 performs poorly
431–440 of 593 posts
Re: Why Cities: Skylines 2 performs poorly
#432> This mesh of a pile of logs is similarly only used in the shadow rendering pass, and features over 100K vertices. But… why?
Because it is one of the 1,000,000 things to pay attention to in game development. Someone or some software probably just made a mistake in setting up its LOD. Or some dynamic LODding code didn't properly cull the LOD0 mesh. Or that code couldn't be finished in time. Or it was something else. It's completely normal in AAA games to have a few imperfect and in-optimal things. Budgets are always limiting, and developmen…
> Because it is one of the 1,000,000 things to pay attention to in game development.
Finding objects with ridiculous triangle counts is one of the easiest things to do when you have known performance issues.
If they didn't have time to do the first, easiest chunk of the work, then something was far more dysfunctional than "it's one of a million things to deal with".
Re: Why Cities: Skylines 2 performs poorly
#433Earlier quoted context omitted.
Let me introduce you to the world of PI planning where two days of every quarter are spent with approximately 100 people (developers, program managers, etc) for each line of business to plan out the next quarter of work - even if 90% of it is continuing the work from the last quarter...
Two days sounds lucky. I've been in SAFE plans where it took an entire week to plan things, it was unreal. Like you I met people I've never seen or heard of from the company all giving their input on software I'm creating. I'd never see them again until the next SAFE planning, only this time it felt like 1 SWE out of maybe 15 (yes there were only 3 teams of 5 devs, put 100+ in these SAFE meetings) contributed anythin…
Half a day is spent on collecting and analyzing the confidence vote. The results of the confidence vote have no impact on the plan except as a baseline for the next PI.
Re: Why Cities: Skylines 2 performs poorly
#434DOTS is the brain child of Mike Action. See his 2014 CppCon "Data-Oriented Design and C++" [1]. But Mike has left Unity, according to his twitter. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX0ItVEVjHc
Despite the original post talking about DOTS rough edges, I didn't see anything in that article that actually suggested DOTS was the cause: that would cause CPU overhead, but it seems like they simply have a bunch of massively over-detailed geometry, and never implemented any LOD system. Maybe they could have gotten away with this with UE5's Nanite, but that much excessive geometry would have brought everything else…
Oh sure. I did not mean to imply that. Sorry.
Re: Why Cities: Skylines 2 performs poorly
#435Earlier quoted context omitted.
I get that to an extent, but it would literally take at max a day for a person to run thousands of meshes through an acceptable SimpifyGeometry function or sorting all models by vertice size and removing the most idiotic ones, or remove the teeth in one go.
Sure. Who is gonna prioritize that? Engineers likely have no discretionary time left and are even working weekends. Even on a web project I've been on, I had PM complaint every meeting about loading times of a admin interface. I told them every time that they should than prioritize the pagination ticket I had written. After a months of this shit, I took time out of my Saturday and just added it. I wouldn't have done…
Not blaming the engineers! The problem is structural or from managers and higher ups.
This is why most non technical business school types can fuck right off, i’ve rarely seen them make anything better.
Managers with either dev or design experience is the only thing that works.
Re: Why Cities: Skylines 2 performs poorly
#436Earlier quoted context omitted.
So you know the saying “premature optimization is the root of all evil?” Producers love that statement because it removes half of the complaints around work being rushed. Optimization is not done throughout the process and later there’s not enough time. Assets are made with bad topology and it would take time to redo them. Or it would take time to write a tool that retopologizes them automatically. What I’m saying is…
Except there really isn’t a better product to back up these issues. There were some important improvements made to the gameplay, traffic system, certain things were reworked, nicer graphics etc. It feels like an iteration and not a ground-breaking game rhat would justify the performance issues we’re seeing.
The design was iterated, but the game assets are redone almost completely, and the systems appear largely reworked, too. This is evident when you play the game.
The scope of work done for this game was exceptionally large for a company with 40 employees, assuming it was done within the usual AAA timeframe.
Re: Why Cities: Skylines 2 performs poorly
#437This is my favorite video using the poor rendering in the game to make cool art effects. Full disclosure there may be an artistic license and post processing but it’s hilarious you can get these visuals in a modern game. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQ13OFmRF-4
Wrong video? I think that one is using Mirror's Edge Catalyst
Re: Why Cities: Skylines 2 performs poorly
#438Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Microsoft has a similar problem where nobody gets promoted from fixing bugs or maintaining stuff, everyone gets rewarded for new innovative [thing] so every two-three years there's a completely new UI framework or similar. Is there any big (or even medium-sized) company where this isn't true? I feel like it's just a rule of corporate culture that flashy overpromising projects get you promoted and regularly doing im…
> Is there any big (or even medium-sized) company where this isn't true? Valve?
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Re: Why Cities: Skylines 2 performs poorly
#439Earlier quoted context omitted.
It makes one wonder what their internal employee incentives are and if they're problematic. Microsoft has a similar problem where nobody gets promoted from fixing bugs or maintaining stuff, everyone gets rewarded for new innovative [thing] so every two-three years there's a completely new UI framework or similar. Although I feel like wanting to start-a-new is a common tech problem, where there are problems and everyo…
> Microsoft has a similar problem where nobody gets promoted from fixing bugs or maintaining stuff, everyone gets rewarded for new innovative [thing] so every two-three years there's a completely new UI framework or similar. Is there any big (or even medium-sized) company where this isn't true? I feel like it's just a rule of corporate culture that flashy overpromising projects get you promoted and regularly doing im…
Aviation. Software will often spend ten times as long in QA and testing as it will in principal development.
Re: Why Cities: Skylines 2 performs poorly
#440Earlier quoted context omitted.
Colossal Order has about 40 employees, even though they are AAA. Here - proven otherwise.
> even though they are AAA Says who?
They have a large publisher (Paradox Interactive) who prescribes their schedules. They also made bet bookings from Cities: Skylines that put them quite evidently in AAA. Finally, they release the games for all major platforms. All together, this describes a AAA game developer.
In contrast, an AA developer would work with publishers like Annapurna Interactive, Devolver Digital or Team 17, while a III game would have a much smaller scope - like The Witness, The Stanley Parable, or Hellblade: Senua’s Sacrifice. It is clear that Colossal Order doesn’t work with a small publisher or make games of indie scope.
If you were just sealioning, don’t do that please.