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Why Cities: Skylines 2 performs poorly

blog.paavo.me

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Re: Why Cities: Skylines 2 performs poorly

#391
post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The default assumption is that the studio is not particularly different from the norm of the industry, unless proven to be otherwise.

Colossal Order has about 40 employees, even though they are AAA. Here - proven otherwise.

> even though they are AAA

Says who?

Re: Why Cities: Skylines 2 performs poorly

#392
post #375

"And the reason why the game has its own culling implementation instead of using Unity’s built in solution because Colossal Order had to implement quite a lot of the graphics side themselves because Unity’s integration between DOTS and HDRP is still very much a work in progress and arguably unsuitable for most actual games." This sadly tracks with my own experiences with Unity's tooling, where DOTS did ship but its i…

I don't understand how Unity burns through up to a billion in revenue every single year, yet their engine still feels so half-baked and unpolished. Where's all that money going?

Agile shaman took the wheel

Re: Why Cities: Skylines 2 performs poorly

#395
post #72

> A brief glance at the JS bundle reveals that they are using React and bundling using Webpack. While this is something that is guaranteed to make the average native development purist yell at clouds and complain that the darned kids should get off their lawn, When I first heard of this as being a thing, my initial reaction was indeed something like "wait what? HTML and CSS in a desktop PC game driving the UI? No, th…

People like to whine about web stuff being for babies, but writing dynamic UIs in "normal" things is very messy.

Now, there is stuff like imgui of course. But Try writing a very heterogenous UI in something like Qt and then come back to React. There's very little empathy for the machine but it works so well.

Re: Why Cities: Skylines 2 performs poorly

#396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So? That's even better. Doesn't use my battery life or create noise & heat. Netflix isn't run on my machine either.

Sure, but then it does not have any relevance to the article.

Wasn't supposed to challenge anything in the article. Just an option for those who are struggling to play it on their current hardware.

Even with GFN it's laggy and stutters. Totally agree with the article.

Re: Why Cities: Skylines 2 performs poorly

#397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So? That's even better. Doesn't use my battery life or create noise & heat. Netflix isn't run on my machine either.

Sure, but then it does not have any relevance to the article.

I wasn't claimed to be relevant to the article, it was a reply to "it's a big bummer that I can't give this one a go" with a suggestion of how they could play it.

Re: Why Cities: Skylines 2 performs poorly

#398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So? That's even better. Doesn't use my battery life or create noise & heat. Netflix isn't run on my machine either.

It just uses natural resources to outfit and power data center stuff to create heat and noise somewhere further away. Netflix... is fairly efficient, though being on-demand, perhaps much less so than broadcast TV.

Yes, but better that, in a shared environment with center-wide cooling and such, then each individual household needing to do that on their own.

Also way fewer cards needed this way, with users being able to share cards through the day instead of each needing their own.

Basically mainframes all over again :)

Re: Why Cities: Skylines 2 performs poorly

#399

Why did they make the game in Unity instead of UE5? I assume it's something around the likes of "Staff is more comfortable with Unity", right, so let's release a game that runs like absolute garb. because we want to use a specific engine. Next time I wanna take out my graphics card from my PC I'm going to use scissors instead of screwdrivers because I'm more comfortable with them. When did the gaming industry become…

> When did the gaming industry become a place where what people inside the company want matters more than the end user? Happened everywhere. Now if you run an intense company where people are expected to work hard towards ambitious goals or be fired, you’re “toxic”

It sounds like you're attempting to carry the water for Elon Musk. Good luck with that.

The very definition of a toxic brogrammer, Alex St John literally glorified the benefits of slavery and Microsoft's imperialistic dominance of game developers in his own words [1], describing his infamous Toga Party / Roman Orgy / Slave Auction he threw in the Spartan Stadium at the 1996 Computer Game Developer Conference (which I and my team from Maxis attended, and personally witnessed the slave auction and free silly string and live lions -- not all were caged, some were just tied up):

[1] http://www.alexstjohn.com/WP/2013/03/06/bunnygate-pt-2/ [offline and banned from archive.org]

>"Sex, violence and debauchery were all hallmarks of a great Roman “orgy” and I wanted to come as close to capturing that experience as I could get away with."

>"The slave auction was also a special occasion. The Roman guards were rounding up the losers from the gladiatorial events and anybody who was offending a “senator” or Cleopatra and throwing them in the slave pit. Once a sufficient number of slaves had been collected from the party, Gillian returned to the stage to auction them to the audience for the gold they had won in the games. Gillian could set any base price she wanted for a “specimen”, if the audience wouldn’t pay the price the slave would be “thrown to the lions”. We had configured a “pit” full of foam to one side of the stage and directly in front of the first caged lion. A failed slave would be marched to the edge of the pit at spear point and pushed in by the praetorian guard where they would fall into box full of foam below the audiences line of sight. Then a huge video clip of lions tearing up a wildebeest and roaring would be played on the big screens on either side of the stage accompanied by the sounds of screaming. Down in the foam pit we had a collection of fake bloody body parts that somebody would toss up in the air during the lion feeding. Of course the “victim” was then allowed to sneak out the back and return to the party."

Yes, the same Alex St. John who is so incredibly toxic that his own daughter publicly denounced him and his "horrific toddler meltdown" and "toxic waste trash fire":

I Am Alex St. John’s Daughter, and He Is Wrong About Women in Tech (medium.com/milistjohn):

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11542568

https://medium.com/@milistjohn/i-am-alex-st-john-s-daughter-...

>My name is Amilia St. John and I am the daughter of Alex St. John. Yes, that one. For those not following the horrific toddler meltdown my father has been very publicly broadcasting over the past few days, here is a short summary; My father, posted an article recently on venturebeat.com claiming that:

>“Many modern game developers have embraced a culture of victimology and a bad attitude toward their chosen vocations.”

>and how:

>“[he] can’t begin to imagine how sheltered the lives of modern technology employees must be to think that any amount of hours they spend pushing a mouse around for a paycheck is really demanding strenuous work.”

>— The usual self aggrandizing agenda that older generations like to peddle on days when they need to feed their superiority complexes. My father’s article led to a massive outcry from the gaming industry and a subsequent invasion of my father’s blog by the (rightfully) angry internet masses.

>On the blog, they uncovered extremely distasteful recruiting slides and supplemental blogs with revolting opinions regarding women, minorities and those with autism in the tech industry. Since these findings, countless others and I have found ourselves at a loss for words how anyone, especially someone in a position of power, can think that it is acceptable to broadcast such offensive material.

>As his toxic waste trash fire not only is associated with my last name but also my face, I felt compelled to respond to my father’s sexist, ableist, and racist rants. [...]

Alex St John’s Ideas About Game Development Are Terrifying:

https://www.kotaku.com.au/2016/04/alex-st-johns-ideas-about-...

>Earlier today you would have seen the story how Alex St. John, the creator of DirectX and founder of WildTangent, came out over the weekend trying to recharacterise the conditions of game development. It’s art, not a job, and game developers shouldn’t be as concerned with stress, work-life balance or fair wages. Those were some of the arguments St. John made, although you should read them within to understand the full context.

>St. John also has strong views on who precisely game studios should hire. It’s contained in a presentation called “Recruiting Giants” and suggests, among other things, that coding isn’t actual work, “real” programmers don’t value money and that working juniors and interns so hard they burn out is “good for them”. [...]

Dispelling some myths about the autistic wunderkind programmer:

https://www.gamedeveloper.com/business/dispelling-some-myths...

>In April 2016 Alex St. John, one of the developers behind Microsoft's DirectX technology platform, wrote an article in which he defended eighty hour working weeks, scorned work-life balance and memorably described a porcelain toilet as an "incredibly decadent luxury." St. John’s article was widely criticized for promoting what many consider to be exploitative working practices and attitudes in the video game industry.

>In the ensuing outrage, a PowerPoint presentation written by St. John surfaced which included a slide in which he referred to engineers with Asperger syndrome as being "the holy grail" of hires. "They work like machines," he wrote, "don’t engage in politics, don’t develop attitudes and never change jobs." [...]

Re: Why Cities: Skylines 2 performs poorly

#400
post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without the stupidly implemented front end draining the resources you could easily have millions of people in your city.

Why do you think the UI is causing all the performance issues?

I think they mean the visuals as a whole.
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