> A brief glance at the JS bundle reveals that they are using React and bundling using Webpack. While this is something that is guaranteed to make the average native development purist yell at clouds and complain that the darned kids should get off their lawn, When I first heard of this as being a thing, my initial reaction was indeed something like "wait what? HTML and CSS in a desktop PC game driving the UI? No, th…
Why Cities: Skylines 2 performs poorly
151–160 of 593 posts
Re: Why Cities: Skylines 2 performs poorly
#152Perf issues also basically killed the SimCity franchise on PC. Hope they are able to fix things up
Re: Why Cities: Skylines 2 performs poorly
#153Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not sure what kind of projects you've worked on before, but the ones I've been involved in, you wouldn't spend time optimizing something taking Why on earth would they try to optimize how the UI renders when they're having big issues elsewhere?
Sorry, my initial comment probably come off quite differently. It's not that "using web UI" is the reason why this game has awful performance, that's more like a bellwether for the studio's priorities. It's absolutely not the most important, or even in the top 10 most important problems here, but it shows really illustratively how much they care about making a game which performs in an acceptable way. (which is: not…
All it shows is that optimizing something that was already fast enough was not a priority. But why would you want it to be?
Re: Why Cities: Skylines 2 performs poorly
#154While the complaints about performance are valid, I’m still having a blast with the game. Having an 11 month old means it’s hard to go deep into something like Cyberpunk since I only get short gaming bursts (ie 7:30 when she goes to bed until 8:30 when I turn off screens). Not enough to play a deep narrative game but plenty of time to expand out my industrial area, fix a highway interchange and figure out what’s goin…
Re: Why Cities: Skylines 2 performs poorly
#155> A brief glance at the JS bundle reveals that they are using React and bundling using Webpack. While this is something that is guaranteed to make the average native development purist yell at clouds and complain that the darned kids should get off their lawn, When I first heard of this as being a thing, my initial reaction was indeed something like "wait what? HTML and CSS in a desktop PC game driving the UI? No, th…
Re: Why Cities: Skylines 2 performs poorly
#156Earlier quoted context omitted.
What probably happened is that certain dev teams built ridiculous things on top of the ECS/DOTS code to see how much they could push the detail. So you wound up with things like the teeth. Which was probably some internal demo-driven development that everyone 'wow'd at the fact that it could be done. Times 100x or something like that. With nobody owning overall performance or whoever owned the overall performance did…
> So you wound up with things like the teeth. Author here. The teeth are completely unrelated to the simulation and not even really related to pushing maximum graphical fidelity. They are just using completely unoptimized - possibly stock - character models, which include a mouth with teeth even thought the characters never open their mouths.
Also think that's a distraction from my point, so just pretend I wrote "100,000 vertex logpiles" instead of teeth.
The teeth are just the most obviously useless unoptimized thing they shipped that nobody had the time/will to cleanup before launch.
Re: Why Cities: Skylines 2 performs poorly
#157Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wonder if releasing a widely anticipated game unfinished is sometimes actually strategically beneficial marketing wise. Perhaps it's a marketing dark pattern? It makes the game stay in people's minds longer because people keep coming back to it asking "is it good yet, have they fixed it yet?". It kind of feels it has worked like that for Cyberpunk. If it's a finished game on launch day people will quickly make up t…
But it’s not “half finished”! It has some performance issues. Not the same thing.
Re: Why Cities: Skylines 2 performs poorly
#158Earlier quoted context omitted.
It makes one wonder what their internal employee incentives are and if they're problematic. Microsoft has a similar problem where nobody gets promoted from fixing bugs or maintaining stuff, everyone gets rewarded for new innovative [thing] so every two-three years there's a completely new UI framework or similar. Although I feel like wanting to start-a-new is a common tech problem, where there are problems and everyo…
> Microsoft has a similar problem where nobody gets promoted from fixing bugs or maintaining stuff, everyone gets rewarded for new innovative [thing] so every two-three years there's a completely new UI framework or similar. Is there any big (or even medium-sized) company where this isn't true? I feel like it's just a rule of corporate culture that flashy overpromising projects get you promoted and regularly doing im…
At another job, at a financial firm I got a big bonus after I went live on November 28th with an upgrade that let a system 10x their max throughput, and scaled linearly instead of being completely stuck. at their 1x. Median number of requests per second received in dec 1st? 1.8x... the system would have failed under load, causing significant losses to the company.
Prevention is underrated, but firefighting heroics are so well regarded that sometimes it might even be worthwhile to be the arsonist
Re: Why Cities: Skylines 2 performs poorly
#159Perf issues also basically killed the SimCity franchise on PC. Hope they are able to fix things up
1. shallow game play compared to its predecessors
2. demand for always online and proven lies about offline play not being possible because of the game architecture
3. invasive DRM, during a time when invasive DRM was on everyone's mind
4. launch issues which, combined with the always-online requirement, meant a solid "plop" of a release.
5. EA was already negatively viewed at the time by many PC gamers
It looks like the wikipedia article for the game mentions some of these, and other issues.
> SimCity's sixth major release was announced on March 5, 2012, for Windows and Mac OS X by Maxis at the "game changers" event.[31] Titled SimCity, it was a dramatic departure from previous SimCity games, featuring full 3D graphics, online multiplayer gameplay, the new Glassbox engine, as well as many other feature and gameplay changes. Director Ocean Quigley discussed issues that occurred during the development of the title, which stemmed from two conflicting visions coming from EA and Maxis. EA wanted to emphasize multiplayer, collaborative gameplay, with some of the simulation work conducted on remote servers, in part to combat piracy. In contrast, Maxis wanted to focus on graphical improvements with the new title. Quigley described the resultant title as a poor compromise between these two objectives- with only shallow multiplayer features, and a small city size limit- one quarter of the land area of previous titles in the franchise.[2][32]
> The game was released for Windows on March 5, 2013, and on Mac in August.[33][34][35] Medium would later refer to the release as "one of the most disastrous launches in history".[2] The game required a constant internet connection even during single-player activity, and server outages caused connection errors for many users. Multiplayer elements were "shallow at best", with departing players leaving abandoned cities behind in public regions. Users were unable to save their game- with the servers instead intended to handle this- and so when users were disconnected they would often lose hours of progress.[36] The game was also plagued by numerous bugs, which persisted long after launch.[37]
> The title was heavily criticized in user reviews, and developer plans for post-launch updates were scrapped.[2] EA announced that they would offer a free game from their library to all those who bought SimCity as compensation for the problems, and they concurred that the way the launch had been set up was "dumb".[38] As a result of this problem, Amazon temporarily stopped selling the game in the week after release.[39] The always-online requirement, even in single play, was highly criticised, particularly after gamers determined that the internet connection requirement could be easily removed.[40] An offline mode was subsequently made available by EA in March 2014, and a mobile port entitled SimCity: BuildIt was released later that year.[41][42][43]
> It has been suggested that the poor performance of SimCity was responsible for the 2015 closure of Maxis' Emeryville studios, and the end of the franchise.[44][45]
Re: Why Cities: Skylines 2 performs poorly
#160Earlier quoted context omitted.
I also doubt any of the developers were aiming for that too. I've been looking through the decompiled code for the purposes of modding for the last few days, wrapping my head around their ECS/DOTS code, and the game has a much better foundation for a scalable simulation than CS1 ever had, even after years of optimizations.
I bet whoever worked on the actual simulation worked really hard for years to make it run efficiently. Then the meme developers in the front end went “lmao JS and CSS for the interface, 100k for a log” and ruined it all