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Monsters of the Road: What Should the UK Do About SUVs?

theguardian.com

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Re: Monsters of the Road: What Should the UK Do About SUVs?

#151

Post by throw0101b »

resuresu wrote: post #86
stuaxo wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing how ugly cars have become. The upsizing is stupid - lots of cars either new versions of renamed versions of old ones but with another layer sandwiched in to make it higher, or just grow all dimensions and more clearance. A lot of them don't even have much / any more room inside.

They exist for a reason. Some people have more to haul than just groceries.

> They exist for a reason. Some people have more to haul than just groceries.

What in daily life is different in the last ~20 years (when SUVs have grown popular), compared to the ~20 years before that (when minivans were a thing), compared to the ~20 years before that (when station wagons were a thing)?

Further, how often is the 'extra' hauling occurring? Why do you need to drive such a thing daily when the haulage is much less often than that? Wouldn't it save people cost (especially in gas, which everyone in the US seems to whinge about) by driving a more efficient vehicle for the most common case of the daily commute and simple weekend errands? (Renting when something 'extra' is needed.)

Further, what percentage of SUVs (and cross-overs/CUVs) actually have towing hitches to haul things? And for carrying things inside, how many SUVs have more internal volume that a minivan?

SUVs, especially the larger varieties, don't seem optimal for anything except vanity. (Speaking as someone who owns a Golf and who borrowed his parents' minivan almost every weekend as a teenager.)

Re: Monsters of the Road: What Should the UK Do About SUVs?

#152

Post by pharmakom »

rich_sasha wrote: post #143
spaer wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think the size differences are as drastic as that. An opel Astra hatchback is 4374mm long and 2062mm wide, while a Volvo XC90 is 4950mm long and 1923mm wide. As long as they both fit comfortably in a normal parking space the dimensions are not going to contribute meaningfully to more congestion or other inconvenience. In the Netherlands I often see people with Dodge rams that are noticeably wider and longer t…

I suppose Volvo SUVs are maybe not at the sharp end of this complaint. They aren't obnoxiously oversized. I realized that when I saw an obnoxiously oversized American urban pick up truck. XC90 ain't small but ferries 7 people, there are plenty of larger SUVs that carry less inside.

XC90 is one of the less offensive examples for sure. However, it could be lower to the ground and still have the same carrying capacity. People just love that rugged off road look though. Perhaps they haven’t come to terms with the fact that the adventurous stage of their life is over now.

Re: Monsters of the Road: What Should the UK Do About SUVs?

#153

Post by wepple »

matsemann wrote: post #91
wepple wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I simply can’t see cycling as the answer. Public transport, 100% yes. But when people suggesting cycling I feel like they’re asking for their hobby to be taxpayer subsidized. How does it work for those who aren’t fully bodily abled? When it snows and rains? Traveling non-trivial distances? Hills?

We have lots of snow and hills here in Norway. I bike year around. Studded tires in the winter. I always find the argument a bit funny, because on the worst snow days the roads are littered with cars and accidents. While I bike happily past. Electric bikes solves the hills-problem for those that don't want to get sweaty. I see lots of parents shipping their kids around on cargo bikes. I hate the argument about "bodil…

You make some fairly reasonable points, but it’s very clear you’re talking explicitly about cities which is a small (but significant) part of the problem. Realistically if you’re trying to get rid of vehicles, most modern cities are already well set up to do that.

I disagree that cars are more excluding than cycling; very few people of older age would be safe cycling compared to driving. Yes, bikes are far more affordable though.

Electric bikes could be quite revolutionary (I’ve owned various modes of electric personal transport - which I’ve turned into a “net 0” project and entirely charged off solar), but when you said “cycling” I don’t consider them to be part of that: many cities exclude powered vehicles from cycling infrastructure

Re: Monsters of the Road: What Should the UK Do About SUVs?

#155

Post by rickydroll »

throw0101b wrote: post #151
resuresu wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They exist for a reason. Some people have more to haul than just groceries.

> They exist for a reason. Some people have more to haul than just groceries. What in daily life is different in the last ~20 years (when SUVs have grown popular), compared to the ~20 years before that (when minivans were a thing), compared to the ~20 years before that (when station wagons were a thing)? Further, how often is the 'extra' hauling occurring? Why do you need to drive such a thing daily when the haulage…

the last truck I had was a Toyota mini pickup. used it frequently on weekends hauling support equipment for dog field events, supplies for rebuilding my house, and telescope kit for observing sessions miles from home.

It was cheaper to by my own pickup and use it everyday than buy a car and rent a pickup on the weeks. when you add the hassle of pickup and drop-off an time pressure to return before you accrue another day charge, owning was definitely cheaper

today, pickups are pillow princess trucks. no scratches, clean bed, no mud.

I am missing my little Toyota. Today, I need to haul plywood, 2x4s, foam board insulation and fiberglass panels for some home projects I was hoping to start today. I instead of using my truck, I have to spend 100+ to rent a body to bring the parts here sometime in the next week and damage them in transit.

Re: Monsters of the Road: What Should the UK Do About SUVs?

#156

Post by fanf2 »

Tax motor vehicles based on the distance between a short driver (160 cm, say) and the nearest visible part of the road in front, and the nearest visible part of the road on the passenger side, without camera assistance.

This would directly target the features that make them unsafe, and it is in line with the safety improvements that are being imposed on buses and heavy goods vehicles.

Re: Monsters of the Road: What Should the UK Do About SUVs?

#157

Post by pandaman »

throw0101b wrote: post #151
resuresu wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They exist for a reason. Some people have more to haul than just groceries.

> They exist for a reason. Some people have more to haul than just groceries. What in daily life is different in the last ~20 years (when SUVs have grown popular), compared to the ~20 years before that (when minivans were a thing), compared to the ~20 years before that (when station wagons were a thing)? Further, how often is the 'extra' hauling occurring? Why do you need to drive such a thing daily when the haulage…

Minivans are not small, if you have problems with the SUV size then why is a minivan suddenly okay? It's the same size car with a differently styled body and without towing capacity. E.g. Toyota Sienna is the same width and length as BMW X7 and less than 4" shorter in height. And Chrysler Pacifica is longer and wider than either of these (also less than 3" shorter in height than X7). And X7 is a big SUV that I rarely see, most SUVs on the streets around me are something like Toyota RAV4, which is half foot narrower than Pacifica, shorter in length more than a foot and shorter in height than any of the above.

Re: Monsters of the Road: What Should the UK Do About SUVs?

#158

Post by vkazanov »

petre wrote: post #122
vkazanov wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a london, uk resident, I recently got a hatchback-sized lexus hybrid "SUV", the ux 250h. Perfect for the place, possible to go to a motorway, high mpg, reliability. My kid is just fine in the back sit, I can see a second one fitting just fine. my American friend laughed at me, saying something like "a family needs at least a range rover, you can afford one". So it's not about reason, not about making a balanced ch…

How do you deal with the small boot space? Have you taken off the boot's floor and the polystyrene foam underneath it?

Dunno, we never felt the need to damage the car to get some more space :-) It just doesn't make sense to use a jumbo jet to get around Kent.

Re: Monsters of the Road: What Should the UK Do About SUVs?

#159

Post by jdietrich »

benj111 wrote: post #124
jdietrich wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Larger SUVs do exist on the UK market, but they really aren't very popular because they're very inconvenient on our narrow roads and prohibitively expensive for most people. To my knowledge, the biggest passenger cars on the UK market are the Range Rover and the Hyundai Santa Fe, which I believe would be classed as mid-size SUVs on the US market. If you were to import something like an Escalade or a Navigator, you'd…

F150s and the like are getting increasingly popular. When I see one actually carrying something in the back I'll let you know.

There are a grand total of 192 Ford F150s currently registered in the UK, a substantial proportion of which aren't actually registered for road use. Mid-size pickups like the Ford Ranger, the Volkswagen Amarok and the Mistubishi L200 are significantly more common; these vehicles stand out as huge in a UK context, but aren't particularly big by American standards.

Re: Monsters of the Road: What Should the UK Do About SUVs?

#160

Post by neurostimulant »

pandaman wrote: post #157
throw0101b wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They exist for a reason. Some people have more to haul than just groceries. What in daily life is different in the last ~20 years (when SUVs have grown popular), compared to the ~20 years before that (when minivans were a thing), compared to the ~20 years before that (when station wagons were a thing)? Further, how often is the 'extra' hauling occurring? Why do you need to drive such a thing daily when the haulage…

Minivans are not small, if you have problems with the SUV size then why is a minivan suddenly okay? It's the same size car with a differently styled body and without towing capacity. E.g. Toyota Sienna is the same width and length as BMW X7 and less than 4" shorter in height. And Chrysler Pacifica is longer and wider than either of these (also less than 3" shorter in height than X7). And X7 is a big SUV that I rarely…

Instead of comparing with modern minivan, you should compare them with minivan from 20 years ago since that's what GP was talking about. In my region, minivans from 20 years ago are smaller than new SUVs today.
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