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Monsters of the Road: What Should the UK Do About SUVs?

theguardian.com

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Re: Monsters of the Road: What Should the UK Do About SUVs?

#141

Post by maxerickson »

kergonath wrote: post #127
ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that weight difference results in a noticeable tax difference, then lorries will be virtually priced off the road due to the tax. Realistically, the tax would have to be affordable for heaviest vehicles which would make the tax difference between 1.5 to 2 tons negligible. Maybe one way round it is to have tax bands for heavy commercial vehicles and weight-based tax for cars and SUVs. Edit: thought I'd try to work…

> If that weight difference results in a noticeable tax difference, then lorries will be virtually priced off the road due to the tax. That’s a red herring. Lorries don’t have to be taxed the same way as cars, and actually most of the time are not.

If all cars are responsible for some small fraction of road damage, it probably isn't going to have much impact to carefully apportion that fraction of the damage.

Re: Monsters of the Road: What Should the UK Do About SUVs?

#142

Post by adhesive_wombat »

fragmede wrote: post #113
yodelshady wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you argue that you'd be a liar. They just don't. They all get about 200 miles real world, my (£10,000 cheaper !) hatchback, petrol with a 55 L tank and much more interior space than any of those, can push 400. Why say things that aren't true? People aren't going to be fooled.

> can push 400. That is to say, not 400? Why say things that aren't true? People aren't going to be fooled.

400km on 55l of fuel is pretty low. A car that gets 50mpg (UK gallons), which is fairly middle of the road efficiency, would go 600 miles, or 965km on that, assuming motorway driving.

I regularly do 550 miles (850km - 5 return trips of 55 miles each way) on a single 60l tank of diesel in an older car and can do more if I dawdle and cruise more. I know I've been driving badly when the fuel light comes on on before the end of the fifth trip.

Re: Monsters of the Road: What Should the UK Do About SUVs?

#143

Post by rich_sasha »

spaer wrote: post #83
nologic01 wrote: post #12

Oversized SUV's littering urban landscapes (taking effectively twice the space of a small electric car) are the tangible evidence of how society grows not just unsustainable and unequal, but aggressive and in-your-face. I don't think there is any other period where the front "face" of a car aimed to create such an ugly, intimidating impression (i am huge and i will tear you apart). Their popularity speaks volumes abo…

I don’t think the size differences are as drastic as that. An opel Astra hatchback is 4374mm long and 2062mm wide, while a Volvo XC90 is 4950mm long and 1923mm wide. As long as they both fit comfortably in a normal parking space the dimensions are not going to contribute meaningfully to more congestion or other inconvenience. In the Netherlands I often see people with Dodge rams that are noticeably wider and longer t…

I suppose Volvo SUVs are maybe not at the sharp end of this complaint. They aren't obnoxiously oversized. I realized that when I saw an obnoxiously oversized American urban pick up truck.

XC90 ain't small but ferries 7 people, there are plenty of larger SUVs that carry less inside.

Re: Monsters of the Road: What Should the UK Do About SUVs?

#144

Post by greesil »

kergonath wrote: post #59
mnd999 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m guessing you live somewhere with wider roads and more private vehicle-centric urban planning. That is not the UK.

Or anywhere else in Europe, really.

Mostly it's the sliding doors. My idiot children love to fling car doors open. I'm sure there's a European minivan equivalent that's teensy weensy but is considered too posh

Re: Monsters of the Road: What Should the UK Do About SUVs?

#145

Post by jimnotgym »

kergonath wrote: post #128
petre wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they tax rural registered vehicles less, people will register their SUVs in rural areas. If you live in the country you probably need a 4x4 or a pickup truck, depending also on the type of work that you do.

> If you live in the country you probably need a 4x4 or a pickup truck, depending also on the type of work that you do. There already are exemptions and tax credits for professional equipment, right? It’s nothing that has not been solved already.

There are no exemptions for road tax, it is just deductable against income tax, which means you get some fraction of it back depending on your tax rate.

Unfortunately for me I am commuting to a job through the countryside, and therefore I can't deduct anything.

Re: Monsters of the Road: What Should the UK Do About SUVs?

#146

Post by azherebtsov »

rlkf wrote: post #69

The problem is ironically only exacerbated by electrification as the market for EVs seems to be divided in two: You must seemingly choose between very small cars such as the MiEV, or the gargantuan likes of Teslas. There are no electrical MPVs or stationwagons. And with no carbon emissions, people have less qualms about picking the SUV, turning a blind eye to the production emissions and safety hazards.

There is something in the middle like VW ID Buzz https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_ID._Buzz with the size of a SUV and quite a good range between 400 and 600 km. And without SUV safety issues like limited observability. Not too many Vans like this around, but I think they will gain popularity. Obviously Mercedes Vito will be a good base for EV Van.

Re: Monsters of the Road: What Should the UK Do About SUVs?

#147

Post by NikkiA »

raverbashing wrote: post #133
benj111 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

F150s and the like are getting increasingly popular. When I see one actually carrying something in the back I'll let you know.

Yeah not even the handymen use those, they prefer a van It's cheaper, easier to park and also due to the weather I'd say

The local painter/decorator here has a fleet of L200s, some with open beds, some with covered 'van' beds. Every road he or his employees park on is instantly blocked.

It's irritating af.

Re: Monsters of the Road: What Should the UK Do About SUVs?

#148

Post by azherebtsov »

matsemann wrote: post #91
wepple wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I simply can’t see cycling as the answer. Public transport, 100% yes. But when people suggesting cycling I feel like they’re asking for their hobby to be taxpayer subsidized. How does it work for those who aren’t fully bodily abled? When it snows and rains? Traveling non-trivial distances? Hills?

We have lots of snow and hills here in Norway. I bike year around. Studded tires in the winter. I always find the argument a bit funny, because on the worst snow days the roads are littered with cars and accidents. While I bike happily past. Electric bikes solves the hills-problem for those that don't want to get sweaty. I see lots of parents shipping their kids around on cargo bikes. I hate the argument about "bodil…

I really think that cargo bikes should be banned forever as a huge threat for kids inside. I feel like this is invented for those who takes caring of environment as a religion and ready to sacrifice own kids for it. One could say that the danger for them is mainly from cars but you can say so about public transport. I.e bus or tram is dangerous for cargo bike occupants.

I really do not get this when I see cargo bike with two kids inside, two kids bikes hanging on the sides and bags of groceries pulled by one cyclists. What is the point? Prove that you are strong enough?

Re: Monsters of the Road: What Should the UK Do About SUVs?

#149

Post by herbstein »

petre wrote: post #104
jayski wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Denmark taxes car purchases at 150%. I think Singapore does something similar.

Denmark taxes lower income rural residents disproportionally. Singapore is a city state.

While our car taxes are very high, the 150% is the top marginal rate and isn't applied to cheap economy boxes.

Re: Monsters of the Road: What Should the UK Do About SUVs?

#150

Post by herbstein »

dmazin wrote: post #24

I was nodding along until I read that they deflate XC90s. To me, that is a completely reasonable car if you have 3 children. I know people who buy Range Rovers just to drive to work, but not XC90s.

Personally, my family owned a Peugeot 406 Estate when I was a kid/teenager. According to Wikipedia the that is L 4576 mm, W 1760 mm, and H 1396 mm. For comparison, the XC90 is L 4953 mm, W 2008 mm, and H 1776 mm. The 406 has 526 l of trunk space, while the XC90 has 680 l.

With the 406 we did yearly trips to Southern Europe (from Denmark) with 5 people and gear for 2 weeks of vacation. IME people REALLY overestimate how much space they actually need. Hell, a colleague of mine has two kids in strollers. They're leasing a V60. She thinks the car is way too big, and she's looking forward to get a smaller car when their contract runs out.

The plural of anecdote isn't data, but I firmly believe people use the space to justify

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