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Monsters of the Road: What Should the UK Do About SUVs?

theguardian.com

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Re: Monsters of the Road: What Should the UK Do About SUVs?

#71

Post by stuaxo »

nologic01 wrote: post #12

Oversized SUV's littering urban landscapes (taking effectively twice the space of a small electric car) are the tangible evidence of how society grows not just unsustainable and unequal, but aggressive and in-your-face. I don't think there is any other period where the front "face" of a car aimed to create such an ugly, intimidating impression (i am huge and i will tear you apart). Their popularity speaks volumes abo…

It's amazing how ugly cars have become.

The upsizing is stupid - lots of cars either new versions of renamed versions of old ones but with another layer sandwiched in to make it higher, or just grow all dimensions and more clearance.

A lot of them don't even have much / any more room inside.

Re: Monsters of the Road: What Should the UK Do About SUVs?

#72

Post by stuaxo »

michpoch wrote: post #14
kergonath wrote: post #4

Cars should be taxed based on their weight and there should be much stricter standards regarding visibility. There is no reason why most of us should subsidise a few people’s status symbol and their entirely unnecessary use of public resources. Ultimately you should not be able to buy these, at least in their current form, as they serve no purpose whatsoever besides inflating their owner’s ego at a significant cost t…

> Cars should be taxed based on their weight Why weight in particular? Two arguments here: 1. SUVs are already taxed on weight indirectly - they consume more fuel which is heavily taxed (50+% in most of Europe). 2. SUVs are already taxed higher because they're more expensive. In some places in the world (e.g. some parts of Switzerland) there's already a tax on car weight. I do not see it being particularly effective.…

Because damage to the road increases by something like the weight increase ^ 4.

Re: Monsters of the Road: What Should the UK Do About SUVs?

#73

Post by kergonath »

bdavbdav wrote: post #3

I’m all for fewer people driving them (most are just lifted versions of normal cars now, but more uncomfortable and inefficient), but I’m very sure messing essential safety features (correctly pressurised tyres) is not how you get that point t across.

Messing with other people’s cars is not great, there should be better solutions.

Re: Monsters of the Road: What Should the UK Do About SUVs?

#74

Post by praptak »

Bostonian wrote: post #60
kergonath wrote: post #4

Cars should be taxed based on their weight and there should be much stricter standards regarding visibility. There is no reason why most of us should subsidise a few people’s status symbol and their entirely unnecessary use of public resources. Ultimately you should not be able to buy these, at least in their current form, as they serve no purpose whatsoever besides inflating their owner’s ego at a significant cost t…

"Ultimately you should not be able to buy these, at least in their current form, as they serve no purpose whatsoever besides inflating their owner’s ego at a significant cost to others." I am wary of this statement, because it could justify banning a wide range of consumer goods and services. On another note, if SUVs are much more dangerous to others than other cars, insurance claims against SUV drivers and insurance…

> it could justify banning a wide range of consumer goods and services

GP qualified their statement pretty precisely: no purpose other than ego, significant cost to others. What's the harm in banning anything that ticks both of these boxes?

Re: Monsters of the Road: What Should the UK Do About SUVs?

#75

Post by TerrifiedMouse »

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #40
michpoch wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cars should be taxed based on their weight Why weight in particular? Two arguments here: 1. SUVs are already taxed on weight indirectly - they consume more fuel which is heavily taxed (50+% in most of Europe). 2. SUVs are already taxed higher because they're more expensive. In some places in the world (e.g. some parts of Switzerland) there's already a tax on car weight. I do not see it being particularly effective.…

Weight is an important metric as it has a big influence on two very important external affects. Road wear/damage is proportional to roughly the fourth power of weight. However, this won't have much impact on SUVs directly, but on large lorries and buses. (It's easy to see the damage at bus stops where the slowing to a stop and starting from a stop, both noticeable deform the road after a time. This is also visible at…

> However, this won't have much impact on SUVs directly

Why not?

Even an increase from 1.5 tons to 2 tons results in 3.16x the damage on the road.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_power_law

Re: Monsters of the Road: What Should the UK Do About SUVs?

#76

Post by citrin_ru »

michpoch wrote: post #14
kergonath wrote: post #4

Cars should be taxed based on their weight and there should be much stricter standards regarding visibility. There is no reason why most of us should subsidise a few people’s status symbol and their entirely unnecessary use of public resources. Ultimately you should not be able to buy these, at least in their current form, as they serve no purpose whatsoever besides inflating their owner’s ego at a significant cost t…

> Cars should be taxed based on their weight Why weight in particular? Two arguments here: 1. SUVs are already taxed on weight indirectly - they consume more fuel which is heavily taxed (50+% in most of Europe). 2. SUVs are already taxed higher because they're more expensive. In some places in the world (e.g. some parts of Switzerland) there's already a tax on car weight. I do not see it being particularly effective.…

> 1. SUVs are already taxed on weight indirectly - they consume more fuel which is heavily taxed (50+% in most of Europe)

In UK all electric cars are tax free be it a smart or a huge SUV and difference in electricity consumption AFIK less than in fuel consumption (thanks to recuperation) for ICE cars. Where I live in the UK I see little SUV in general but cars with green plates (electric) are disproportionately SUV.

Re: Monsters of the Road: What Should the UK Do About SUVs?

#77

Post by wepple »

hkt wrote: post #32

Obligatory plug for cycling and cycling infrastructure. Getting people out of cars - all cars - is a necessity for preventing catastrophic climate change.

I simply can’t see cycling as the answer. Public transport, 100% yes. But when people suggesting cycling I feel like they’re asking for their hobby to be taxpayer subsidized.

How does it work for those who aren’t fully bodily abled? When it snows and rains? Traveling non-trivial distances? Hills?

Re: Monsters of the Road: What Should the UK Do About SUVs?

#78

Post by LeanderK »

azherebtsov wrote: post #66
blitzar wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the equivalent thought process as "everyone making my salary + £1 or more gets paid way too much money and should be taxed at 100%"

What car would you recommend to a family of five? I have 2 kids and when we go for a trip the my Citroen c4 is full. Would I have one more kid it’s no way we can fit into this car, despite it has 5 seats. Should we stop thinking about road trips and consider only plane/train/bus? Or should we consider only van/caravan? I support the argument that unnecessary consumption should be penalised somehow, but I do not suppo…

I don't think you can drive a SUV in a city and fit 3 children in there. It's just too enormous, think about how massive it would be. We drove a van when I was small (VW sharan), which is the reasonable choice I think. I think SUV-type cars are generally too big for a city, except the smallest and a family should by a van as a van does generally not have such a large hood and it's height is not so high.

Big cars in a city have negative consequences for others. This is not only about enviromentalism, but increasing walkability, liveability and bike-ability in dense city environments. In my last city (Tübingen), you have to buy a "parking pass" as a resident to park in the neighbourhood. They recently greatly increased the price for an SUV, which I think is a good idea.

Re: Monsters of the Road: What Should the UK Do About SUVs?

#79

Post by master-lincoln »

paganel wrote: post #50
isoprophlex wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fiat 500e, Nissan Leaf, Renault Zoe, Peugeot 208e, whatever ugly shit Opel/Vauxhall is pushing out...

None of those cars (toys) get you very far outside of the city. And inside of the city we've got public transportation.

I'd argue all of the cars you listed get you as far as you have gasoline. Even with room for at least one passenger and luggage. What's your argument?

And public transport cannot always replace individual mobility. E.g. transporting big things or sick people is not really an option on public transport

Re: Monsters of the Road: What Should the UK Do About SUVs?

#80

Post by stuaxo »

michpoch wrote: post #14
kergonath wrote: post #4

Cars should be taxed based on their weight and there should be much stricter standards regarding visibility. There is no reason why most of us should subsidise a few people’s status symbol and their entirely unnecessary use of public resources. Ultimately you should not be able to buy these, at least in their current form, as they serve no purpose whatsoever besides inflating their owner’s ego at a significant cost t…

> Cars should be taxed based on their weight Why weight in particular? Two arguments here: 1. SUVs are already taxed on weight indirectly - they consume more fuel which is heavily taxed (50+% in most of Europe). 2. SUVs are already taxed higher because they're more expensive. In some places in the world (e.g. some parts of Switzerland) there's already a tax on car weight. I do not see it being particularly effective.…

SUVs bonnets are the height of my 6 year old, she can easily be out of visibility, as there are plenty of non SUVs around I can see it's not the case for the them.

The exhaust is not at just the right height for kids in buggies when you cross the road.

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