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You're Gonna Need a Bigger Browser

berjon.com

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Re: You're Gonna Need a Bigger Browser

#71

Post by bbor »

evanjrowley wrote: post #57
fassssst wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why?

I'll try to articulate this as someone who usually has 500-1000 open tabs. Bookmarks are things that meet or surpass a certain threshold of usefulness. My open tabs probably include things that should be bookmarked, but all of that information needs to be screened for what's really worth saving. Clusters of tabs for various trains of thought take time to condense into purified bookmarks. In order for me to have less…

So you don’t use bookmarks because bookmarks seem like they have to be perfectly named/organized? Why not just… not? I.e. a bookmark folder called “chaos”. Seems like it would instantly unlock a more natural UI for the same data, but maybe I’m missing something.

Thanks for explaining what you already have, I’ve always been SO confused by people with hundreds of tabs. I hope I wasn’t the only one who read “people either use 3 tabs or 300” and thought that was insanely out of touch

Re: You're Gonna Need a Bigger Browser

#72

Post by autoexec »

CSMastermind wrote: post #33
idle_zealot wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What he's actually proposing are Web Tiles[1], which he explains in the next article in this series. Basically a move from web pages as Internet-connected applications to being locally-cached reusable components that compose into workflows. 1: https://berjon.com/web-tiles/

Someone should write an article about that then because this series of articles does a poor job of explaining both the problem and the solution.

Even the linked page doesn't contain the phrase "web tiles" outside of the title and a link back to itself

Re: You're Gonna Need a Bigger Browser

#73

Post by autoexec »

Aerbil313 wrote: post #6

This actually makes sense… Why isn’t Mozilla rolling out ad tracking to Firefox for it to fund itself? Oh yeah, they’re already getting all the money they need from Google.

I assume the real answer is that because the moment they did there'd be a thousand forks and nobody would use Mozilla's browser anymore

Updates would probably slow down a lot, but I doubt that everyone would stop working on it, and that nobody new would step up to maintain whatever the most popular folks were.

Re: You're Gonna Need a Bigger Browser

#74

Post by keepamovin »

btilly wrote: post #68
keepamovin wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This reads like a lot of hand waving and talking in circles from someone who drank an extra pot of coffee. This reading seems too dismissive and simplistic, and not respectful of the people involved. At the base of the article: Many thanks to the following excellent people (in alphabetical order) for their invaluable feedback: Amy Guy, Benjamin Goering, Ben Harnett, Blaine Cook, Boris Mann, Brian Kardell, Brooklyn…

The point that nobody wants tabs was handwavy and extremely dismissive of the fact that I actually do like tabs. Based on my past experiences with other UX people who want me to live without a UI element that I'm attached to, I'd be willing to bet money that he's failed to understand something about how my brain actually works. And mocking people who might have my preference goes a long way to convincing me that he w…

Thanks for your clarity! While not the ancestor commenter, you lay out a criticism of that point well.

I agree with you the point about tabs comes across as insensitive and lacking in empathy for people who like tabs.

Take for example: For all users, tabs are the wrong answer to something people want to do: organise their information, even if it's just a small current stack of interactions

Criticism of tabs is warranted and it's worth exploring other solutions, but to pretend that tabs have no use cases, thereby seeming to suggest that anyone who likes them is "wrong" or, even "dumb", is difficult to support. This exaggeration makes the points less effective.

And mocking people who might have my preference goes a long way to convincing me that he won't want to listen to why people like me don't want to use his version

Totally agree.

I thought the article made good points, but often stated them poorly, diluted them with unwarranted insensitivity and hyperbole, and was hard to read.

Re: You're Gonna Need a Bigger Browser

#75

Post by keepamovin »

bee_rider wrote: post #9

I’m not sure exactly what the proposal is, but a server in ever web browser so you could host, like, a little tiny social media and file sharing site could be nice.

My product, DownloadNet, merges server capabilities with web browsing, creating an offline search engine from your browsing history. This article echoes the innovation we're driving forward, despite this article's occasionally exaggerated and insensitive tone.

Berjon, points out that despite being a cornerstone of the web, browser design has stagnated, suggesting we re-envision browsers to enhance user control. He argues for integrating browsing, search, and social media, and imagines browsers as 'agents' with server-like functions, offering services like personalized data management.

Berjon also critiques tab management and the current browser business models, advocating for reinvestment into the web. He's hopeful for change, emphasizing financial incentives for innovation.

Particularly intriguing is the concept of Personal Data Servers, aligning with my vision for a federated search engine in DownloadNet, which could evolve into a social sharing tool where you publish your local search engine for others to use: https://github.com/dosyago/DownloadNet

Notably missing is the role AI could play in amplifying user agency within this framework.

At my company, we're crafting BrowserBox to redefine browsers as empowering user agents. It’s an open-source initiative critical to the web’s future: https://github.com/BrowserBox/BrowserBox

Re: You're Gonna Need a Bigger Browser

#76

Post by Izkata »

bbor wrote: post #71
evanjrowley wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll try to articulate this as someone who usually has 500-1000 open tabs. Bookmarks are things that meet or surpass a certain threshold of usefulness. My open tabs probably include things that should be bookmarked, but all of that information needs to be screened for what's really worth saving. Clusters of tabs for various trains of thought take time to condense into purified bookmarks. In order for me to have less…

So you don’t use bookmarks because bookmarks seem like they have to be perfectly named/organized? Why not just… not? I.e. a bookmark folder called “chaos”. Seems like it would instantly unlock a more natural UI for the same data, but maybe I’m missing something. Thanks for explaining what you already have, I’ve always been SO confused by people with hundreds of tabs. I hope I wasn’t the only one who read “people eith…

> Why not just… not? I.e. a bookmark folder called “chaos”. Seems like it would instantly unlock a more natural UI for the same data, but maybe I’m missing something.

Back to my comment that started this: That would be a flat list with no grouping and little to no context. Tree Style Tabs automatically organizes them by context.

For example, one of my root tabs is Youtube. Immediate children include a few channels that upload a lot of videos so I don't subscribe to them (they'd drown out the ones that upload rarely) but want to keep up with them. Those then have child tabs for their videos I want to watch/listen to at some point, but haven't gotten to yet.

I do the same on here, one of my root tabs is the Hacker News homepage. This one has a bunch of additional long-running tabs, interesting projects I want to try out myself, or reminders to try something out and maybe switch to it instead of whatever I'm currently using. Most of these have further subtabs as I've started exploring whatever it was but not yet finished with it.

And yeah, you could do such groupings with bookmarks... but that's manual work. This is automatic.

Re: You're Gonna Need a Bigger Browser

#77

Post by ArabicBaklava »

autoexec wrote: post #72
CSMastermind wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone should write an article about that then because this series of articles does a poor job of explaining both the problem and the solution.

Even the linked page doesn't contain the phrase "web tiles" outside of the title and a link back to itself

i tried chatgpt prompts, still not getting much out of it either

Re: You're Gonna Need a Bigger Browser

#78

Post by ako »

djbusby wrote: post #56
DiggyJohnson wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fascinating. I have a very internet-research heavy project (writing a nonfiction book), but how do you find a specific tab that you want to go back to. It seems like that would be harder than using bookmarks or simply re-navigating to the resource. Do you end up with a “feel” for where the tab is, similar to how we get used to the contours of our camera role on a smartphone?

Your browser likely has a tab search feature (chrome and FF have it). So, you can see/find easy. Also some plugins can help there too.

Might as well just search your browser history?

Re: You're Gonna Need a Bigger Browser

#79

Post by sekh60 »

broodbucket wrote: post #30

I read stuff like this and wonder if I'm the only one that never has more than 10 tabs open and rarely more than a single browser window. Can any tab fiends chime in about your workflow?

I almost never have more than one browser window open and I think the most tabs I have ever had open was 7.

Re: You're Gonna Need a Bigger Browser

#80

Post by CodesInChaos »

cole-k wrote: post #44
broodbucket wrote: post #30

I read stuff like this and wonder if I'm the only one that never has more than 10 tabs open and rarely more than a single browser window. Can any tab fiends chime in about your workflow?

Many tab user (~20-50?) reporting in. I guess I sort of get tab FOMO where I don't want to close a page because I haven't "used it up" yet. e.g. I've had a tab group for a while for buying new shoes. Really, most of these tabs should be bookmarks, but I'm just not bothered enough to change it (yet). Interspersed among the FOMO tabs are things I'm currently working on. These are strewn all over the place and I've obse…

I can recommend the one-tab extension for people with tab-FOMO. It closes all tabs, but saves their urls (never to be looked at again).
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