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While Apple Is Criticized for Foxconn, Other Companies Are Silent

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Re: While Apple Is Criticized for Foxconn, Other Companies Are Silent

#31

Post by cooldeal »

rbarooah wrote: post #20
tatsuke95 wrote: post #5

Apple is the biggest company in the world, other companies are not. With great power comes great responsibility.

So do you think that Samsung for example, has less responsibility for its worker's conditions than Apple?

Equal responsibility but lesser blame. It's like slagging on a poor man for eating unhealthy food on the dollar menu at McDonalds. That man has an excuse, he doesn't have the money to shop for organic food at Whole Foods. Someone already super rich eating the dollar menu just to save a few bucks definitely deserves more blame not for eating healthy.

There isn't much money left over after Apple is done sucking the profit out of the phone industry.

http://www.asymco.com/2012/02/03/first-apples-rank-in-mobile...

http://www.asymco.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Screen-Shot...

Re: While Apple Is Criticized for Foxconn, Other Companies Are Silent

#32

Post by bonch »

recoiledsnake wrote: post #26
sjwright wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should Microsoft be excluded from criticism if they make their buttloads of money from game sales and not the console itself? Should Samsung be excluded from criticism because they discount their prices? Even though they make more phones than Apple? If Apple decided to lower their prices to compete more aggressively with Android, would that absolve Apple of majority responsibility in your eyes?

I did not say Microsoft and Samsung should be excluded from criticism, I said Apple deserves proportionally more blame because they can easily afford to pay more wages unlike other OEMs some of who are struggling to stay afloat.

What do you mean by pay more wages? Apple doesn't own Foxconn or hire its employees.

Re: While Apple Is Criticized for Foxconn, Other Companies Are Silent

#33

Post by ktizo »

cooldeal wrote: post #23
Xuzz wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That $575 number is nonsensical; the iPhone 4S (the most expensive model) costs $599 off-contract. These phones do not cost $25 to make. The real number is somewhere around $300, most of which paid by the carrier: http://www.asymco.com/2012/02/26/iphone-sine-qua-non/ . Regardless, doubling the pay for workers does not solve the real issue here. Their wages are already above average for Chinese factory workers in that…

>That $575 number is nonsensical; Well, then maybe Slashdot is wrong too: http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/12/04/08/0546247/google-ear... >"While Apple generates more than $575 in profit for every iOS device, and according to estimates in 2007 Apple earned more than $800 on every iPhone sold through ATT, Horace Dediu reports that Android generated less than $550m in revenues for Google between 2008 and the end of 201…

That '$575 in profit' is, from the context, how much profit they make on average per year from an iOS device, not just the profit margin on the sale price, otherwise the comparisons to android's yearly profit would not make much sense.

Re: While Apple Is Criticized for Foxconn, Other Companies Are Silent

#34

Post by xal »

ajross wrote: post #16
nirvana wrote: post #12

The real irony, to my mind is this: Apple is the company with the most integrity I've ever known. This manifests itself everywhere- from product quality to service at Apple stores. Apple has been proactive in making sure their employees are well taken care of, here and abroad, and they've been doing this for the past decade. They've been auditing suppliers in various ways for far longer than this story has even been…

You have a cite for Apple "revolutionizing" working conditions? Please, they're a electronics designer. They contract with whoever bids lowest, and always have. One of the big reason Foxconn is so large now is precisely because they were the low bidder for Apple's business years ago. Now, I agree with the premise of the linked article that Apple has been unfairly tarnished for problems that are endemic to the industr…

I have no horse in this race but It's very well known that Apple does indeed pick who bids lowest but:

  * They put severe requirements on the quality of the produce
  * They put severe requirements on secrecy
  * The they put severe requirements on how the workforce needs to be treated
All of the above are enforced. Apple has massive teeth. They are king makers of the industry and drop suppliers like a hat for any offences.

Yes they end up with whoever bids lowest and isn't yet on their shit list. But labour requirements have been part of these requirements since 1990 and have become ever more demanding since.

This is exactly how governments do it. They enter trade and aid agreements with other countries and attach labour requirements. That's the very mechanism which in the long run leads to prosperity.

Re: While Apple Is Criticized for Foxconn, Other Companies Are Silent

#35

Post by glhaynes »

recoiledsnake wrote: post #28
xenophanes wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's revenue (gross income) not profit (net income). Look at the charts on that article, they say all "revenue", the article is about revenue. Apple has an ASP on iphones on the order of 650 and a profit margin on the order of 40%. They can't be making 575 profit per phone.

If that is correct, I stand corrected. I was taken in by the summary on Slashdot which stated that the profit was $575 and quoted Asymco. http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/12/04/08/0546247/google-ear...

Slashdot has always reminded me of that clueless friend that always remembers the numbers from a news story but doesn't remember the units or have any sense of them in a meaningful context.

Re: While Apple Is Criticized for Foxconn, Other Companies Are Silent

#36

Post by rbarooah »

tatsuke95 wrote: post #29
rbarooah wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So do you think that Samsung for example, has less responsibility for its worker's conditions than Apple?

No, I don't. Look, I'm not particularly into this debate. I believe the conditions are relatively horrible, but there are lots of horrible things going on in the world, so it's not where I'd spend my time. At the end of the day, working at Foxconn is voluntary, as opposed to, say, cancer. That said, I'm glad that there are people in the world fighting this fight. It's how social change happens. And I'm going to assum…

Targeting Apple has proven to be the best vehicle for that.

Do you have any evidence at all for this? How do you know that targeting other companies too wouldn't be more effective?

Re: While Apple Is Criticized for Foxconn, Other Companies Are Silent

#37

Post by [deleted] »

cooldeal wrote: post #31
rbarooah wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So do you think that Samsung for example, has less responsibility for its worker's conditions than Apple?

Equal responsibility but lesser blame. It's like slagging on a poor man for eating unhealthy food on the dollar menu at McDonalds. That man has an excuse, he doesn't have the money to shop for organic food at Whole Foods. Someone already super rich eating the dollar menu just to save a few bucks definitely deserves more blame not for eating healthy. There isn't much money left over after Apple is done sucking the pro…

[deleted]

Re: While Apple Is Criticized for Foxconn, Other Companies Are Silent

#38

Post by rbarooah »

cooldeal wrote: post #31
rbarooah wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So do you think that Samsung for example, has less responsibility for its worker's conditions than Apple?

Equal responsibility but lesser blame. It's like slagging on a poor man for eating unhealthy food on the dollar menu at McDonalds. That man has an excuse, he doesn't have the money to shop for organic food at Whole Foods. Someone already super rich eating the dollar menu just to save a few bucks definitely deserves more blame not for eating healthy. There isn't much money left over after Apple is done sucking the pro…

Since they are doing the most to improve working conditions, perhaps they deserve more profit.

Re: While Apple Is Criticized for Foxconn, Other Companies Are Silent

#40

Post by officialchicken »

hmottestad wrote: post #10

Did anyone notice the text under the image "A worker inspected motherboards on a factory line at the Foxconn plant in Shenzen, China, in May." She is looking at a graphics cards, not a motherboard.

First thing I noticed. And unfortunately for the author, that's where I stopped reading, since the credibility is instantly lost.
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