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Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

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Re: Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

#311
post #293

The book "into the country" covers people homesteading and gold prospecting in the 70s in Alaska. They would live off a bag of rice and a bag of corn and whatever they could hunt or grow for the year, then once a year, get big bag of rice and corn. It sounded, well, unpleasant, but exciting. But it's exciting because you are on the edge of survival. cheap land colorado is a book about similar efforts today by people…

McPhee's Coming into the Country? One of his better books--which is saying a lot--though it's been years since I read it.

Yeah, great book!

Re: Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

#312
post #43
post #2

I Seen Airport mentioned as a Suggestion, and wondered… what airport would you try life at for free, and why?

There have been a number of notable cases over the years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_who_have_lived_...

Wow! I had no idea! I can’t believe there’s one that lived in an airport for 27 years.

Re: Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

#313
post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please name one that one that will not trigger my suicidal ideation. or just name one in general.

> will not trigger Well I don't know what triggers you, so that's hard to say. If it's cold weather, then... nowhere in the Midwest > or just name one in general. Witchita, cedar rapids (Iowa), etc If you go to a much smaller town, there aren't even many studios, but you can find 1/2br for the same.

At some great risk I’m going to explain this to you. One of my sensitivities is to the new 5G towers they’ve been putting up everywhere. Yeah I have EHS. Some places like Wichita with the huge amount of mid band. 5G is just not tolerable for me.

I’ve always had a problem with EMF. I used to work at Cisco and that’s when I had my first mental breakdown in a long time. It was a 1999 right when they started installing Wi-Fi in the buildings. I didn’t know that till many years later.

I have been looking at some places in Nebraska, but this is what I’m faced with.

Re: Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

#314

OP's premise of "living for free" seems to mean "not pay taxes" and "use what resources are available". I wonder what the motivation is here, I've heard this sentiment expressed many times. It usually seems to imply "away from others". Looking back at the millennia of human history, we've always formed communities, always assumed more-or-less specialized roles, and always used some form of debt to manage the social f…

> Personally, I'd much prefer to live in society, and contribute part of my efforts towards sustaining it. A lot of people are stingy and don't want to contribute unless they're getting the bargain. If someone else is getting the better end of the stick, they view this as a loss, and it makes them miserable. Essentially, they view taxation and society as a zero sum game, rather than a positive sum game. I think polit…

>Essentially, they view taxation and society as a zero sum game, rather than a positive sum game

I think this is the crux of it. I think it all comes down to the counterfactual used in comparison.

One group of people say look, this is all positive sum because without society, you would be living in a mud hut, so be gratefully for everything you get to keep beyond that.

The other group of people say look, I contribute far more to this society than I get back. Sure, I'm better off than if I lived in mud hut, but worse off than if I lived in a society with less involuntary obligation.

Re: Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

#315

It's interesting how quality of life baselines have increased so much in the last century. If you wanted to have the QOL of someone that lived in the American West a hundred years ago, it could be done today for probably $100 a month all-inclusive of food, clothing, and shelter. But you'd be eating the same 5-10 things repeatedly, wearing the same clothes, have a few books for entertainment, minimal or no electronics…

> but with the nature of marketing and social pressure, almost no one is willing to make that kind of sacrifice today. Maybe people prefer having pressurized clean tap water and sewer systems due to something other than marketing and social pressure. I know the women in my life would definitely prefer it compared to my grandmothers who had to travel to get water from the well everyday.

This argument makes no sense to me - I didn’t live in a home with municipal water or sewer until I was 18 and living on my own.

For that matter, my current home is inside city limits. While we have municipal water, we are not connected to the city sewer system and instead rely on a septic tank.

It annoys me to no end that I’m not legally able to make major repairs to my septic system, as it’s only allowable under a grandfather clause in the city code. If, say, a utility truck ever drives into my back yard and over my septic tank, I’ll be on the hook for ~$10k to reverse the plumbing in my home, bury a sewer line to the connection at the street, and backfill the old septic tank.

“Best” of all is that in the six years I’ve owned this home, city workers have twice parked bucket trucks in my back yard without even speaking to me. One of those times resulted in my having to dig up and replace a portion of my septic system’s drain field. The city laughed at me when I asked that they pay for the damages. I could have taken them to small claims court over it, but the actual material cost wasn’t enough to justify it.

Of course there are utility easements encumbering the property, so I’m not upset about those being used. The easements are a defined area along the edges of the property, though - not carte blanche to drive all over my yard with heavy equipment. I spoke with the workers on both occasions, and they didn’t even know how to look up where the easements were.

NB: I see I went off on a tangent there, but I’m going to leave it. That sort of dispute is exactly the kind of thing that people who want to “just live” are trying to avoid. It’s one thing to voluntarily submit to rules in exchange for some benefit - it’s another to have rules imposed on you from the outside without consent, and then to have the “authorities” in the arrangement ignore the rules without consequence while simultaneously requiring you to carefully adhere to them.

Re: Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

#316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found this in Pittsburgh. It is sub $500, has flexible dates, and includes all utilities except for electric. https://www.zillow.com/apartments/pittsburgh-pa/hampshire-ha...

Do you notice anything missing from that apartment?

What's missing?

Re: Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

#317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and always used some form of debt to manage the social fabric and facilitate the exchange of goods and services. This is the capitalistic narrative since the agricultural revolution, thousands of years ago, but it's not true of most of human history. During pre-agriculture we coexisted with many species, all living off the fat of the land, resources were plentiful for hundreds of thousands of years. A delightful co…

> resources were plentiful for hundreds of thousands of years While they were plentiful. We chose agriculture because it means your entire tribe not dying of starvation because of minor variations in the local environment.

... and this tribalism led to the violent assembly of contiguous land and hoarding of resources to the alienation of everything/everyone outside the tribe. This pattern evolved into our modern system.

If local environments began to change, then your nomadic tribe moved along rather sitting around waiting to die. Birds fly south for the winter.

Re: Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

#318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Jobs" exist because division of labor is an enormous generator of human welfare. If I have to grow my own food, compose and perform my own music, build my own housing and vehicles, life will be shit. If we do have division of labor and pay each other for the work, we've reinvented capitalism. If we don't pay each other, the incentives are very strong to be a free-rider.

>If we do have division of labor and pay each other for the work, we've reinvented capitalism. This is extremely wrong. Every society in human history has some degree of division of labour. Capitalism is a specific economic mode of production that emerged from the embers of Feudalism a few hundred years ago, as merchant guilds and private manufacturors in urban centres gradually grew more independent whilst the noble…

What exactly is the alternative which has ever been proven to work at scale? As long as we have private property which people are allowed to buy and sell then capitalism is the only possible result. The fact that some primitive tribes managed to eke out a basic existence for a while with a gift economy or whatever isn't a valid counterargument.

Re: Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

#319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Only recently have we stopped because, frankly, there is no place to go This is what I was disputing. We haven’t stopped, and to the extent that we have, it’s not because there’s no place to go.

Yeah, I think I'd mostly agree with you then. I think we are not moving around as much as we used to, and to many people, it feels as if we cannot move; either because we lack the funds to survive there if we do, or because it will just be more of the same. That is obviously a biased view on my part, because there are migrants moving from "developing" countries to the US and EU all the time- clearly, they believe the…

They often find a support network in the diaspora that preceded them. If you move within your own country without any friends or family in the destination, everyone there mainly has experience with people like you who are already established.

Re: Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

#320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, which is why I don’t think any “post-work” society will ever happen on a mass scale. People will invent jobs if they feed a social need.

This doesn't follow because the assumption that it has to take the form of consumption is unwarrented. People have competed to be the most ascetic or otherwise most virtuous or holy on massive scales before. Certain kinds of religious people, activists, hippies and the like still do. It could be the culture again.

Most regular people don't like being miserable. The ascetics have always been a tiny minority in every culture.
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