If anyone fancies playing the game, I made this for/with my kids: https://jawj.github.io/fliptiles (The ‘AI’ player is very weak)
I was even weaker. ;0)
(Nice job BTW)
Othello Is Solved?
81–90 of 285 posts
Re: Othello Is Solved?
#82For those of you who think Othello is trivial, try Zebra.
Original author’s website: http://radagast.se/othello/
A github source: https://github.com/hoshir/zebra
Re: Othello Is Solved?
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
Checkers have been solved 16 years ago and still see competition. A game being solved is not exactly the same as "apply this memorizable algorithm and you'll win", especially if the solution implies scanning 10^n positions for each move.
In case you wondering like me, checkers here means American checkers, played on a smaller 8x8 board. International checkers played on 10x10 board is a much bigger space to explore of course.
Does the board size matter here? Wouldn't the strategy from 8x8 board somehow generalize to bigger boards? The one issue that I can possibly see is even vs odd board sizes, e.g. play on 9x9 board can be a bit different than 8x8 or 10x10.
Re: Othello Is Solved?
#84Correct title: an unknown author from an unknown startup claims in an arXiv preprint (listed somehow in the cs.AI archive) that Othello has been solved. The paper is 13 pages long. I wish that the superconductor debacle (and many others) had taught people critical thinking and skepticism. And yet this is the #1 post on HN right now.
I was watching every development of that superconductivity claim. I was quite enthused! But never once did I move beyond "groundbreaking if true ." This doesn't even have the potential to be groundbreaking. Get over yourself, let people get excited about little stuff.
> Get over yourself, let people get excited about little stuff.
No one has said you’re not allowed to be excited if you want. Just like GP is allowed to be a wet blanket if they want.
Speaking of “get over yourself.” I’m so tired of this “if you don’t completely validate and elevate my feelings then you’re bad/mean and preventing me from feeling what I want” crap. God forbid anyone ever disagree with you.
Re: Othello Is Solved?
#85Correct title: an unknown author from an unknown startup claims in an arXiv preprint (listed somehow in the cs.AI archive) that Othello has been solved. The paper is 13 pages long. I wish that the superconductor debacle (and many others) had taught people critical thinking and skepticism. And yet this is the #1 post on HN right now.
I was watching every development of that superconductivity claim. I was quite enthused! But never once did I move beyond "groundbreaking if true ." This doesn't even have the potential to be groundbreaking. Get over yourself, let people get excited about little stuff.
> Get over yourself, let people get excited about little stuff.
Some people are looking for facts and science, and some are looking for enthusiasm and excitement. Can't discount either one, I suppose.
Re: Othello Is Solved?
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
Now that Othello is solved, there exist a set of rules a player can follow to guarantee a win or draw every game. It's possible (if unlikely) that a computer could sufficiently compress those rules to be memorizable (and then applicable) by a human.
Checkers have been solved 16 years ago and still see competition. A game being solved is not exactly the same as "apply this memorizable algorithm and you'll win", especially if the solution implies scanning 10^n positions for each move.
That would be a fun way to define computer opponent: introduce an arbitrary amount of allowed compute power.
Say, allowing a purpose designed device, but limited to 1W of power consumption. Or some fixed energy budget (J) per move. Too strong? Take it down to 0.1W, 10mW or whatever.
That would degrade brute forcing as a viable approach, and bring it back to smart algorithms, clever ways to reduce the search space, etc.
Re: Othello Is Solved?
#87Correct title: an unknown author from an unknown startup claims in an arXiv preprint (listed somehow in the cs.AI archive) that Othello has been solved. The paper is 13 pages long. I wish that the superconductor debacle (and many others) had taught people critical thinking and skepticism. And yet this is the #1 post on HN right now.
Calling it a debacle is an admission you yourself could benefit from your own advice.
Re: Othello Is Solved?
#88Correct title: an unknown author from an unknown startup claims in an arXiv preprint (listed somehow in the cs.AI archive) that Othello has been solved. The paper is 13 pages long. I wish that the superconductor debacle (and many others) had taught people critical thinking and skepticism. And yet this is the #1 post on HN right now.
I would not call Preferred Networks an "unknown startup" - They've been prominent within the AI research community for quite some time and have contributed important projects such as CuPy and Chainer, the latter introducing the "define-by-run" concept which was later implemented in frameworks such as PyTorch and Tensorflow.
Re: Othello Is Solved?
#89This is cool.
I solved a simpler game about 15 years ago that my brother and I used to play: an African game with about 10 pits on each side of the board that hold stones. I coded up an alpha-beta engine for it, and discovered crazy always win strategies to match how my brother and I played. Suddenly I would win all the games, and then he never wanted to play again. This was a classic match up of a computer scientist vs. an optometrist.
Re: Othello Is Solved?
#90Correct title: an unknown author from an unknown startup claims in an arXiv preprint (listed somehow in the cs.AI archive) that Othello has been solved. The paper is 13 pages long. I wish that the superconductor debacle (and many others) had taught people critical thinking and skepticism. And yet this is the #1 post on HN right now.
Trust but verify. People were excited, but pretty much the first thing on everyone's mind was looking for replication. In contrast, this is not spouting a revolution in physics, but a mathematical puzzle that is mostly trivia. I suspect that the best computer Othello algorithm can already trounce a human.
> Trust but verify.
Ok, so, do you trust everything posted on the Internet until you verify it?
I really think "distrust but verify" is a heck of a better rule, unless your source has a really solid track record.