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Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

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Re: Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

#91

It's interesting how quality of life baselines have increased so much in the last century. If you wanted to have the QOL of someone that lived in the American West a hundred years ago, it could be done today for probably $100 a month all-inclusive of food, clothing, and shelter. But you'd be eating the same 5-10 things repeatedly, wearing the same clothes, have a few books for entertainment, minimal or no electronics…

> It's interesting how quality of life baselines have increased so much in the last century.

From John Maynard Keynes, "Economic Possibilities for our Grandchildren" (1930):

> > Now it is true that the needs of human beings may seem to be insatiable. But they fall into two classes --those needs which are absolute in the sense that we feel them whatever the situation of our fellow human beings may be, and those which are relative in the sense that we feel them only if their satisfaction lifts us above, makes us feel superior to, our fellows. Needs of the second class, those which satisfy the desire for superiority, may indeed be insatiable; for the higher the general level, the higher still are they. But this is not so true of the absolute needs-a point may soon be reached, much sooner perhaps than we are all of us aware of, when these needs are satisfied in the sense that we prefer to devote our further energies to non-economic purposes.

* http://www.econ.yale.edu/smith/econ116a/keynes1.pdf

Re: Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

#92
post #76
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cost of land fertilizer transportation animals etc have gone up to the point that I didn't think that life is possible for 100 a month Consider that If this was possible I could work at McDonald's for two years and then retire to that kind of life. Obviously that's not realistic

Is it possible to make a system that sustains itself? Right now I've got a worm farm going that produces viable compost pretty often, but the Berkely Method would be faster. I have four chickens that produce yards and yards of compost every 3 months and require about a cup of corn a day. You'd need to scale the chicken operation to cover whatever your three month compost needs are and you'd need people to eat or use…

> Is it possible to make a system that sustains itself?

Oh, definitely. We are doing it on a universal scale right now.

If you meant smaller than that, then what are you restrictions?

Re: Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

#93
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cost of land fertilizer transportation animals etc have gone up to the point that I didn't think that life is possible for 100 a month Consider that If this was possible I could work at McDonald's for two years and then retire to that kind of life. Obviously that's not realistic

> Cost of land fertilizer transportation animals My read of the parent’s comment is that you aren’t paying for land. You don’t need store bought fertilizer. I had a garden for a few years and avoided manufactured fertilizer for most of it. At an industrial scale, sure, it is needed, but not at an individual garden level. No transportation needed other than your own two feet or what you can build. It’s not like you ne…

I think life in the 1920s, while having downsides, was a lot better than many people imagine.

Re: Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

#94
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a really interesting concept. When I think about the Amish, I consider how their religion greatly influences their way of life. I wonder if removing the religious aspect and substituting it with a political ideology, or something else could yield similar outcomes.

Welcome to the Kibbutz

Don't forget to mention that most modern kibbutzim went bankrupt though. It turns out that the rest of the world doesn't stop competing with you just because you stop competing with them.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kibbutz_crisis for more background information about the causes and eventual government bailout that ensued.

Source: my wife grew up on a kibbutz and while it does have a nice small village vibe to it, economic prospects inside the community are pretty abysmal. The kibbutz mostly survives because it owns one of the largest chicken farms in Israel and most employees of that farm are not kibbutz members.

Re: Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

#95
post #9
post #7

If you’re a citizen or legal resident of a Nordic country, you’ll get paid basic subsistence when you have no other income. In Finland this is around 500 euros / month. There are lots of empty houses in the remote countryside in Finland (and I presume the same is true for parts of Sweden and Norway). You can probably rent something for next to nothing, or even make a deal with the owner to stay for free in exchange f…

It is also immoral. EDIT: As this is collecting downvotes quite quickly, would any of the downvoters care to explain their stance?

> EDIT: As this is collecting downvotes quite quickly, would any of the downvoters care to explain their stance?

No, it works the other way round: you should explain why you find it immoral, then we can explain why we disagree (or maybe agree) with you. Otherwise you will only get a downvote.

Re: Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

#96
post #69

I think it would be cool if we had a kind of non religious Amish type communities.

I see this sentiment expressed a lot and I think it's understandable, having a community of people that support each other is appealing. But I'm not sure it's possible.

I'm not an expert in collective communities but it seems like they all have strictly defined norms and various mechanism to enforce them.

For example, imagine that you, and I, and a few friends decide to start an intentional community together and shortly afterwards I decide that instead of working I will sit in my basement and argue with people on the internet all day. Are you going to support me in this? Or will you pressure me to get a job or kick me out?

Or what if I decide to spend my resources/money/etc on beer and then beg other members for money when I get hungry? Are you going to put up with that?

My impression is that any working community will have the equivalent of religion to make it work.

There's a long history of attempts to create these kinds of communities if you're interested: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intentional_community

Re: Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

#97
post #75

Is the goal to live without working or without being in the system? If it's the first, maybe living here, in Finland, in a small, cheap village and living off the unemployment benefits would work. There are plenty of people who have been unemployed their whole lives. I guess there's a very small amount of work filling all the benefit forms and subjecting yourself to whatever periodic checks the officials want to make…

[deleted]

Re: Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but with the nature of marketing and social pressure, almost no one is willing to make that kind of sacrifice today. Maybe people prefer having pressurized clean tap water and sewer systems due to something other than marketing and social pressure. I know the women in my life would definitely prefer it compared to my grandmothers who had to travel to get water from the well everyday.

I thought it was obvious that I was referring to consumer goods like clothing and food, not tap water and sewer systems. But alas, if there is any opportunity to misinterpret a comment in the least obvious way possible, someone in the comments will be sure to do so.

Did they purposefully misinterpret or was the original comment poorly thought out dismissal of modern life that ignores, very real things like medicine and clean water?

Re: Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but with the nature of marketing and social pressure, almost no one is willing to make that kind of sacrifice today. Maybe people prefer having pressurized clean tap water and sewer systems due to something other than marketing and social pressure. I know the women in my life would definitely prefer it compared to my grandmothers who had to travel to get water from the well everyday.

I thought it was obvious that I was referring to consumer goods like clothing and food, not tap water and sewer systems. But alas, if there is any opportunity to misinterpret a comment in the least obvious way possible, someone in the comments will be sure to do so.

The material costs are not consumer goods like clothing and food.

It is the infrastructure, moving mountains to move water, paving land to move food, laying wires for electricity and communication, train lines to move fertilizer, refineries, ports, universities to study medicines, etc.

$100 per month is not going to cover any of this, but I am pretty sure you are going to want the benefits.

Re: Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

#100
post #50

It's interesting how quality of life baselines have increased so much in the last century. If you wanted to have the QOL of someone that lived in the American West a hundred years ago, it could be done today for probably $100 a month all-inclusive of food, clothing, and shelter. But you'd be eating the same 5-10 things repeatedly, wearing the same clothes, have a few books for entertainment, minimal or no electronics…

Here's a guy living quite close to 0: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ir3eJ1t13fk Still, he'll have to pay off the land he bought.

I haven't watched the video, but paying off implies owning a title to the land which means paying taxes on it.
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