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Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

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Re: Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

#41

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

kzrdude wrote: post #27
ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Singapore Changi airport has to be the best option in terms of facilities and luxury. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewel_Changi_Airport

Based on Singapore's reputation, would they tolerate someone trying to camp in the airport?

I imagine you could get away with looking like a traveller at first, but over time, the various staff are going to recognise you and realise what's going on. It wouldn't surprise me if they specifically look out for people who aren't genuine travellers as a security measure.

Re: Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

#42

Post by kuschku »

mopenstein wrote: post #30
defrost wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'It' ? What exactly is immoral and why?

It's the coercive nature by which wealth is redistributed to other people that brings upon the questions of morality. If I'm forced at the end of a barrel of a gun to give up any portion of the fruits of my labor to support others, it is immoral.

If they are truly just the fruits of your labor, and the society contributed nothing, you are free to move to a zero-tax third world country and live there.

And if society did contribute more to your work than these taxes cost — which it likely did, considering you didn't move to a third world country yet — then society is free to take its fair share in return.

Re: Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

#45

Post by coolThingsFirst »

Podgajski wrote: post #36
keiferski wrote: post #15

It's interesting how quality of life baselines have increased so much in the last century. If you wanted to have the QOL of someone that lived in the American West a hundred years ago, it could be done today for probably $100 a month all-inclusive of food, clothing, and shelter. But you'd be eating the same 5-10 things repeatedly, wearing the same clothes, have a few books for entertainment, minimal or no electronics…

I have a very low material quantity of life, but my spiritual quality of life is pretty good even as I live homeless with a disability in a minivan in the United States. Americans are way too materialistic and there needs to be a reckoning of this if anything is going to change. Even people I meet that live in other minivans or RVs want to have every single creature comfort they had when they were living in a house.…

What's the hardest thing about your life?

Re: Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

#46

Post by pavlov »

danbruc wrote: post #34
pavlov wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another way to look at this would be in the context of subsidies aimed at less populated areas of the country. A lot of people are concerned about the countryside going empty, and there are various policies aimed at reversing or at least halting that. They are necessarily income-transfer programs where cities subsidize the countryside. An individual getting paid 500 euros to live in a remote area doesn’t seem like a…

Would the aim of such programs not be to have a working society in those less populated areas instead of just filling it with non-working people completely dependent on others?

People change. Especially for young people, I personally think it’s valuable to give them opportunities that are not immediately productive.

If you could get a 21-year-old to move into the countryside, it might have significant long-term upside even if the person appears like a slacker right now. They could find a spouse and have kids. They could come up with an online business (which might still look like “slacking at a computer” to most of the world). They could eventually do local volunteer work that is important but can’t get done at market prices. There’s a lot of ways that a young person’s life can go.

For older people the equation is a bit different for obvious reasons. But most government programs can’t discriminate by age, so you’d have to aim at a compromise.

Re: Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

#47

Post by softg »

keiferski wrote: post #15

It's interesting how quality of life baselines have increased so much in the last century. If you wanted to have the QOL of someone that lived in the American West a hundred years ago, it could be done today for probably $100 a month all-inclusive of food, clothing, and shelter. But you'd be eating the same 5-10 things repeatedly, wearing the same clothes, have a few books for entertainment, minimal or no electronics…

> This was typical, to be expected a century ago, but with the nature of marketing and social pressure

It might be typical and expected but that doesn't mean it was desirable even then. People lived that way because they had to. It was always considered a difficult way of life. It's more likely that people gave it up as soon as they could when they had the chance.

I think there are two different concepts here. You can be materially minimalist, i.e. you can refuse to buy superfluous consumer products that are pushed by marketing etc. You will still need housing, healthcare and transportation (assuming that you have to drive to work). Those things have very real objective benefits and their widespread adoption can't be explained with marketing or social pressure. And you won't be able to get those for 100 dollars a month (correct me if I'm wrong). If you are foregoing those as well you're not just materially minimalist, you're basically going off-grid and abandoning civilization altogether.

Re: Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

#48

Post by bell-cot »

Podgajski wrote: post #39
bell-cot wrote: post #3

Summary: Yes...so long as your expectations for the quality and quantity of your life there are sufficiently low.

It’s not a low quality of life, it’s a normal human quality life.

True. But for ~90% of HNer's, I suspect it'd be a huge downgrade.

Re: Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

#49

Post by exDM69 »

pavlov wrote: post #7

If you’re a citizen or legal resident of a Nordic country, you’ll get paid basic subsistence when you have no other income. In Finland this is around 500 euros / month. There are lots of empty houses in the remote countryside in Finland (and I presume the same is true for parts of Sweden and Norway). You can probably rent something for next to nothing, or even make a deal with the owner to stay for free in exchange f…

Owning a property comes with property taxes. And will make you ineligible for a lot of the benefits.

And speaking of said benefits, it's a part time job keeping up with the paperwork.

And the Nordics are a cold place, you either need to own some forest or pay for firewood and/or electricity or heating oil. Forest property is quite expensive.

There's no way you could live in a cheap house in the Nordic countryside for "free" or even cheap.

Re: Is there anywhere in the world someone can just live for free?

#50

Post by high_5 »

keiferski wrote: post #15

It's interesting how quality of life baselines have increased so much in the last century. If you wanted to have the QOL of someone that lived in the American West a hundred years ago, it could be done today for probably $100 a month all-inclusive of food, clothing, and shelter. But you'd be eating the same 5-10 things repeatedly, wearing the same clothes, have a few books for entertainment, minimal or no electronics…

Here's a guy living quite close to 0: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ir3eJ1t13fk

Still, he'll have to pay off the land he bought.

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