Federal Reserve is threatening to sue Bitcoin Mag over parody product • Hacker News Board

Re: Federal Reserve is threatening to sue Bitcoin Mag over parody product

#61

Post by autoexec » Fri, Nov 03, 2023, 10:03 PM UTC

anonporridge wrote: post #45

DANmode wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't have a problem with surveillance. I have a problem with surveillance under the Also, just stop there !, because the rest of that sentence will change every 5, 10, 50 years, no matter what anyone does. Don't start any program within your home that you don't want your enemies to have access to use against you while they're in power.

I don't get how people don't understand this. One of the reasons that the Nazis were especially effective at finding Jews in the Netherlands is because of their very detailed civil registry, that included religious affiliation. French authorities were also forced to help the Nazis locate Jews during their occupation, and this is one of the reasons the French today don't keep official records on people's race or relig…

The point is to put into place systems that will protect you from abuses no matter who comes into power. Those systems, and how well they function, can act as a bellwether indicating how tyrannical the authorities are becoming. If you're lucky exposed weaknesses in those systems can be patched up, and corrupt individuals ousted to shore up your freedoms before things slip too far, but if nothing else those early warning signs can tell you when it's time to get out while you still can.

At the point where you've already been taken over by the new "Nazis" it doesn't much matter. They'll put into place the systems you fear anyway. You say the French today don't keep official records on people's race or religious affiliations, but corporations do, and so that data on the population already exists and could be obtained very quickly. The nice French government today won't touch that data, but New Hitler would.

In the meantime, because France doesn't want to consider race in statistics, it's made documenting, understanding, and addressing the massive racial discrimination problems they have very difficult. For years there have been calls for the French government to start collecting ethnicity data in their statistics because blinding yourself to problems means you can't solve them. (https://repository.uclawsf.edu/hastings_international_compar...) The policy to avoid that kind of data collection was well-meaning, but it turns out that not collecting that data doesn't adequately protect the people of France, and in fact it's actually hurting them.

Re: Federal Reserve is threatening to sue Bitcoin Mag over parody product

#62

Post by kolanos » Fri, Nov 03, 2023, 10:03 PM UTC

mindslight wrote: post #60

kolanos wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is the Federal Reserve a privately owned corporation? > > Yes and no. The Federal Reserve (the Fed) enjoys a unique public/private structure that operates within the government, but is still relatively independent of government to isolate the Fed from day-to-day political pressures in fulfilling its varying roles. > > The Federal Reserve System is considered to be an independent central bank. [0] [0]: https://www.f…

Sure, so not like Federal Express at all. Just because a part of the government is insulated and less accountable than the rest of the government, doesn't mean it isn't government - regardless of this "independence" it's still setting inescapable policy.

It has government oversight, but so does every other bank that operates in the United States. So not much of a distinction there.

The Federal Reserve is in effect a consortium of banks acting as an independent central bank more so than a government entity.

> The Fed is independent in the sense that monetary policy and related decisions are made autonomously and are not subject to approval by the federal government. [0]

It isn't just insulated, it is independent. The Federal Reserve's shareholders are the member banks, not the public.

> Federal Reserve Banks' stock is owned by banks, never by individuals. Federal law requires national banks to be members of the Federal Reserve System and to own a specified amount of the stock of the Reserve Bank in the Federal Reserve district where they are located. [1]

Federal Express, too, is subject to similar government oversight being a publicly traded private corporation.

[0]: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/041515/why-f.... [1]: https://www.cga.ct.gov/PS95/rpt/olr/htm/95-R-1200.htm#:~:tex....

Re: Federal Reserve is threatening to sue Bitcoin Mag over parody product

#63

Post by absinthe11 » Fri, Nov 03, 2023, 10:37 PM UTC

tromp wrote: post #34

warkdarrior wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Regarding Bitcoin [...] the network is increasingly moving [...] more efficient mining practices Has Bitcoin changed its mining protocol?

It is and always will be Hashcash with SHA256d as hash function.

That's an example of sunk cost fallacy, where the miners have spent so much money (real dollars, not bitcoin) on otherwise useless ASICs that they obstruct any attempts at progress.

Re: Federal Reserve is threatening to sue Bitcoin Mag over parody product

#64

Post by ianburrell » Fri, Nov 03, 2023, 11:46 PM UTC

kolanos wrote: post #62

mindslight wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, so not like Federal Express at all. Just because a part of the government is insulated and less accountable than the rest of the government, doesn't mean it isn't government - regardless of this "independence" it's still setting inescapable policy.

It has government oversight, but so does every other bank that operates in the United States. So not much of a distinction there. The Federal Reserve is in effect a consortium of banks acting as an independent central bank more so than a government entity. > The Fed is independent in the sense that monetary policy and related decisions are made autonomously and are not subject to approval by the federal government. […

The Federal Reserve chairman and all of the board of governors are appointed by the President. Banks have no involvement in the Federal Reserve. There are no Federal Reserve shareholders.

Banks are involved with the regional Federal Reserve Banks. But the Federal Reserve Banks are controlled by the Federal Reserve and have pretty minor powers.

Re: Federal Reserve is threatening to sue Bitcoin Mag over parody product

#65

Post by imsurgio » Sat, Nov 04, 2023, 1:10 AM UTC

Aunche wrote: post #22

striking wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're really underselling it. They're replying to the Fed as if their cease-and-desist letter were no more than some sort of internet argument on Reddit or something. Here's a sample, to encourage folks to read the article and have a good hearty chuckle themselves: > > “The Federal Reserve has extensively used and promoted the FEDNOW mark and has built up substantial goodwill in this invaluable asset. Financial inst…

> For starters, what goodwill has the Federal Reserve built up? Have you seen the state of the working class today? The Fed is why America can send pieces of papers and bits and receive trillions of dollars worth of goods and services. Thanks to this, Americans have the highest average disposable incomes in the world and the highest median income in the world behind a tiny tax haven. If Americans aren't able to benef…

The Fed isn't "another" part of government. It's owned privately. That is really the main issue. It functions to make its members rich, anything positive is kinda less benefit than if it were truly part of the government. You might be thinking of the treasury.

Re: Federal Reserve is threatening to sue Bitcoin Mag over parody product

#66

Post by imsurgio » Sat, Nov 04, 2023, 1:13 AM UTC

mindslight wrote: post #37

kolanos wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Doesn't the Copyright Act of 1976 place government works into public domain? The Federal Reserve is about as federal as Federal Express.

The Federal Reserve is a de facto branch of government. To the extent that it manages to legally and politically suppress this fact, and perhaps even has a plausible claim to create "trade" marks and whatnot, is just part of the general corruption surrounding it.

Nope. They just bill us huge amounts to rule money. They are not a function of government. They are a for profit organization with zero loyalties to the US. When the well dries here, they just move on.

Re: Federal Reserve is threatening to sue Bitcoin Mag over parody product

#67

Post by alphanullmeric » Sat, Nov 04, 2023, 1:23 AM UTC

hgomersall wrote: post #56

alphanullmeric wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cryptocurrencies have no value, what do you intend on taxing?

I suspect you're aware that your rhetorical question rather neatly makes the point that taxing in crypto would immediately (and for crypto-bros, ironically) imbue them with value.

What’s the point you’re trying to make? Do cryptocurrencies have value or not? It’s one or the other, you can’t claim they have value when you want to tax them and then claim they don’t when you want to regulate them.

Re: Federal Reserve is threatening to sue Bitcoin Mag over parody product

#68

Post by Aunche » Sat, Nov 04, 2023, 2:43 AM UTC

imsurgio wrote: post #65

Aunche wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For starters, what goodwill has the Federal Reserve built up? Have you seen the state of the working class today? The Fed is why America can send pieces of papers and bits and receive trillions of dollars worth of goods and services. Thanks to this, Americans have the highest average disposable incomes in the world and the highest median income in the world behind a tiny tax haven. If Americans aren't able to benef…

The Fed isn't "another" part of government. It's owned privately. That is really the main issue. It functions to make its members rich, anything positive is kinda less benefit than if it were truly part of the government. You might be thinking of the treasury.

You're wrong at just about every point. The Fed is autonomous but still part of the government. Congress can revoke this if they really wanted to, but they won't because even they know that they'll just use it for their political scheming like they do with anything else they can get their grubby hands on. Jerome Powell made most of his money in private equity, and he could have stayed there he wanted more. Now, his compensation is less than that of a first year associate at Goldman Sachs. Before you bring it up, no, a few million dollars in speaker fees doesn't make up for this opportunity cost for a banker at that caliber.

Re: Federal Reserve is threatening to sue Bitcoin Mag over parody product

#69

Post by kolanos » Sat, Nov 04, 2023, 3:55 AM UTC

ianburrell wrote: post #64

kolanos wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has government oversight, but so does every other bank that operates in the United States. So not much of a distinction there. The Federal Reserve is in effect a consortium of banks acting as an independent central bank more so than a government entity. > The Fed is independent in the sense that monetary policy and related decisions are made autonomously and are not subject to approval by the federal government. […

The Federal Reserve chairman and all of the board of governors are appointed by the President. Banks have no involvement in the Federal Reserve. There are no Federal Reserve shareholders. Banks are involved with the regional Federal Reserve Banks. But the Federal Reserve Banks are controlled by the Federal Reserve and have pretty minor powers.

> Banks have no involvement in the Federal Reserve.

Sure they don't. That's why Ben Bernanke now serves on the board of two of them (Citadel, PIMCO). And Alan Greenspan serves on three (Deutsche Bank, PIMCO, Paulson & Co).

If you've never heard of PIMCO, it is the investment bank that advises central banks on their policies and investments, including the Federal Reserve. But banks have no involvement, of course.

> PIMCO is one of the largest investment managers, actively managing more than $2 trillion in assets for central banks, sovereign wealth funds, pension funds, corporations, foundations and endowments, and individual investors around the world. [0]

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PIMCO

Re: Federal Reserve is threatening to sue Bitcoin Mag over parody product

#70

Post by hgomersall » Sat, Nov 04, 2023, 8:00 AM UTC

alphanullmeric wrote: post #67

hgomersall wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect you're aware that your rhetorical question rather neatly makes the point that taxing in crypto would immediately (and for crypto-bros, ironically) imbue them with value.

What’s the point you’re trying to make? Do cryptocurrencies have value or not? It’s one or the other, you can’t claim they have value when you want to tax them and then claim they don’t when you want to regulate them.

That the process of taxation in a certain money is a sufficient condition to give that money value.