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Young people would sacrifice other perks for a 4-day workweek

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Re: Young people would sacrifice other perks for a 4-day workweek

#71

Post by trident5000 »

doctorwho42 wrote: post #62
trident5000 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lol good luck telling that to this this community who are frustrated they cant afford a home in the most niche place on earth and refuse to live anywhere else.

Is wanting to live less than an hour commute to work "the most niche place on earth"? Most people I know are renting because they can't afford anything within an hour commute and we have grown up hearing and seeing the pains of the commuter life. So why saddle ourselves with both a 30 year mortgage for a overpriced home that will also drain us of 10+hrs/week

Sounds like a lifestyle choice. Stop packing into cities like a can of sardines and it wont be an issue. Being inflexible to literal physics and reality is a personal issue.

Re: Young people would sacrifice other perks for a 4-day workweek

#72

Post by kevincox »

NeoTar wrote: post #59
RecycledEle wrote: post #22

Give us Wednesday off, not Friday. Then we can rest between 2-day work spurts.

If we move to a four-day week as standard I hope we do it in a flexible way, so that some people don't work Monday, some people don't work Tuesday, etc. I acknowledge that could be difficult to manage in some industries (e.g. trying to get eight people together in a meeting), but it means that traffic would be lowered each working day, as well as people being more spread out when attending leisure activities (i.e.not…

> e.g. trying to get eight people together in a meeting

This could potentially be mitigated by having some "common days" enforced. So maybe the whole company works monday and tuesday or something like that. Prefer putting smaller meetings on the other days (You should have at least 1 overlap day with everyone else assuming that everyone has weekends + 1 day of their choosing off) but for larger meetings those provide a high chance of finding a time.

Re: Young people would sacrifice other perks for a 4-day workweek

#73

Post by medo-bear »

dkdbejwi383 wrote: post #34
yardie wrote: post #12

Moving back to the US after living abroad I was used to month long holidays. I applied to a few companies and tried to negotiate 5 weeks PTO. They wouldn't budge. Then 4 weeks. Still no. I offered to drop my salary in exchange for vacation. Still no. I asked HR why everything else was negotiable except PTO and they told me I would have more time off then people who've been there for 7+ years. This was my first clue t…

I'm Australian but have lived in Europe for a long time. When I begin to consider moving back, one of the things that puts me off is that 4 weeks is pretty much universal in Australia, plus in Australia I think it's pretty standard to have a fixed number of days you're allowed to be sick. I'm too used to having 6 weeks holidays and essentially unlimited sick leave (as long as it's legitimately required). It's a more…

as far as worker rights go, i think australian workers have it better than in most countries. in places in eu like austria you even have "sicky police" that go to check up on you when you are sick. lol i dont think something like this would fly in 'straya. to be clear im not talking about full on compo and insurance companies hiring private investigators. im talking about calling your boss and telling him/her that you have high temperature

still, weirdly enough, i think that overall work life balance and quality of life is much better in europe than in places like sydney. i think that this is actually because australia has turned into a nanny state in almost every other segment of life. europe in this regard treats its inhabitants as adults much moreso than australia

> still miss the food at home

in europe? im actually the opposite. i miss the great variety of great restaurants in sydney and melbourne

Re: Young people would sacrifice other perks for a 4-day workweek

#74

Post by culopatin »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #7

Young people don't want to work hard because there's little incentive. No matter how hard you work, unless you're in the top 5%, you're far priced out of most places most people want to live. You can afford everything comfortably beside housing & health care (which you don't need much of when you're young) on a relatively low wage in the US. So you've pretty much given up on housing. What's the point in working hard?

My theory is that compared to people in the 60s say, there are more things to do with your free time now, to the point where they are sometimes in conflict. Before you’d get home and all you could do was have a beer and maybe watch tv, listen to the radio, read a book. Now we are so connected to so many things, and we know about all the activities possible around us through social media, that work is in the way. Work would define life, now it’s just something to pay the bills. Sure, not universal, people still have professional goals, I want to change careers, I want to finish that project at work because I think it’s interesting and would benefit people, but I would not get in the way of working 4x8 instead of 5x8 for that.

I want to play games, learn about AI, 3D printing, CAD, mountain bike, go to trivia, travel to Thailand, travel to Europe, see family across the globe, get more flexible, build muscle, etc etc etc. None of them are at work.

Re: Young people would sacrifice other perks for a 4-day workweek

#75

Post by ramraj07 »

vladvasiliu wrote: post #49
onion2k wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 4 day work week is not '4 days work for 80% of the money'. A 4 day work week today means working 4 days a week for the same money as a person working 5 days a week. Depending on the company that's either 10 hours a day for 4 days a week, or more commonly it's an 8 hour day for 4 days a week with an assumption (proven in many studies) than people work harder with less downtime for that 8 hours so consequently get th…

> A 4 day work week today means working 4 days a week for the same money as a person working 5 days a week Sure, but you'll have even less hope for a salary increase next year, since this is basically what it is. This was the theory behind France's move to the 35-hour workweek, too. They also expected companies to hire more people to compensate for less work being done. Didn't work out as expected.

What happened in France?

The way I see it, as programmers we will be far more productive working fewer days per week and just taking more time to relax. If this assumption is accurate you have to do nothing to compensate.

Re: Young people would sacrifice other perks for a 4-day workweek

#76

Post by coldpie »

13of40 wrote: post #41
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #7

Young people don't want to work hard because there's little incentive. No matter how hard you work, unless you're in the top 5%, you're far priced out of most places most people want to live. You can afford everything comfortably beside housing & health care (which you don't need much of when you're young) on a relatively low wage in the US. So you've pretty much given up on housing. What's the point in working hard?

Probably the same as it's ever been. Out of three random employees, you have one who's just going through the motions, one who's working hard, and one who's actively hostile. Which one gets the money when review time rolls around? That, and what's the long term strategy? Do they turn 30 and flip from working part time at Pizza Hut to a professional salaried career? Good luck getting an interview with that CV. I'm not…

> Which one gets the money when review time rolls around?

The CEO.

Re: Young people would sacrifice other perks for a 4-day workweek

#77

Post by bequanna »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #24
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #7

Young people don't want to work hard because there's little incentive. No matter how hard you work, unless you're in the top 5%, you're far priced out of most places most people want to live. You can afford everything comfortably beside housing & health care (which you don't need much of when you're young) on a relatively low wage in the US. So you've pretty much given up on housing. What's the point in working hard?

So you're not going to be able to live where most people want to live . That's far different from having no house. "Giving up on housing" is not the right answer. "Start small and work your way up", like most of us did. See, when you hit 20, you're looking at your parents, and you're seeing them when they're 45 or 50. You're not seeing them when they were 20. You expect that you're going to be able to live like they…

Check out a graph showing average income vs monthly housing costs over time.

Re: Young people would sacrifice other perks for a 4-day workweek

#78

Post by epups »

This is a huge trend in Europe. A sizable portion of people I know are simply deciding to work as little as possible, even if that means getting paid less. The general perception is that there is no point in saving for a house or for retirement, and many perceive the career ladder game to be a fool's errand. So they just want to get enough money to live at present.

Re: Young people would sacrifice other perks for a 4-day workweek

#79

Post by financltravsty »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #24
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #7

Young people don't want to work hard because there's little incentive. No matter how hard you work, unless you're in the top 5%, you're far priced out of most places most people want to live. You can afford everything comfortably beside housing & health care (which you don't need much of when you're young) on a relatively low wage in the US. So you've pretty much given up on housing. What's the point in working hard?

So you're not going to be able to live where most people want to live . That's far different from having no house. "Giving up on housing" is not the right answer. "Start small and work your way up", like most of us did. See, when you hit 20, you're looking at your parents, and you're seeing them when they're 45 or 50. You're not seeing them when they were 20. You expect that you're going to be able to live like they…

Quite easy to say when you already have the momentum of a career and net worth. Much harder to sincerely believe when you're crushed with student loans, have no savings, and career prospects are utterly depressing if you weren't fortunate enough to be raised in an environment that pushed you to set your life up properly from the get-go.

There are no guarantees and the odds are harrowing. Software engineering could completely dry up tomorrow. Then what? The professions that make any sort of thriving wage and have some semblance of career stability (medicine, finance, etc.) all have stringent gatekeeping pedigree requirements. What's left? Sales? Restarting in a trade where all the incumbents have been doing manual labor since they were in middle school, and you're no longer as youthful and full of vigor as you once were? Grind out for 10 years to get a foothold in the industry, and your body's breaking down, but now you have a shot at starting your own business instead of getting paid $60k/yr (disregarding backbreaking overtime) to do shit work. Great, you're 40 now and all of the economic tribulations you've faced means your retirement accounts are severely lacking. You will never retire and will have to keep on working until you die (either naturally or on the job). Healthcare: costs are going to go up. Housing: you never got the chance to own, so now you're stuck burning money renting. Inflation: everything is more expensive, but compensation hasn't grown with it.

Or more poignantly: can you keep on grinding forever? With all of the young bucks that come into this field with the drive to "make a name for themself" and reinvent the wheel ad nauseam. Can you keep up, old man? You're one psychological accident away from being unable to put bread on the table. Then what? Disability? Living in halfway houses because you can't pay rent anymore? Being surrounded by people who've fallen on hard times who can do nothing but drag you down with them? That's when you spiral further into a hole you can never get yourself out of. You're fucked.

I don't expect to live like my parents, but I won't pretend that life is not utterly and depressingly precarious. Lucky are the middle-aged and older; for they had grown up in utter blissful ignorance of things. Woe is the hyper-connected youth; unable to simply exist.

Re: Young people would sacrifice other perks for a 4-day workweek

#80

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF »

tansan wrote: post #42
dkdbejwi383 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm Australian but have lived in Europe for a long time. When I begin to consider moving back, one of the things that puts me off is that 4 weeks is pretty much universal in Australia, plus in Australia I think it's pretty standard to have a fixed number of days you're allowed to be sick. I'm too used to having 6 weeks holidays and essentially unlimited sick leave (as long as it's legitimately required). It's a more…

> It's a more grown-up arrangement where businesses realise that regular time off (and as much time as you need if ill) increases happiness and therefore productivity. Is there a metric of some sort that I can share with other people that demonstrates 4 weeks PTO does work and has led to increased productivity in Australia? I personally believe in shorter work weeks, but my experience is anecdotal, so was wondering i…

I’m confused. It kinda sounds you are asking what metric needs to have a bias for it in a study. If you otherwise have information that you believe would demonstrate the point, just share that.
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