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Why NoSQL Equals NoSecurity

informationweek.com

1–10 of 35 posts

Re: Why NoSQL Equals NoSecurity

#2
This article makes it sound like relational databases are the pinacle of security. Sure, they have usernames and passwords and other controls, but the data is still usually stored unencrypted.

I don't think putting a few username/password credentials onto the datastore will make it much more secure, especially if I can put those same access controls into a database access layer.

In the end you need to defense in depth just like always, and that includes putting access controls, network controls, OS controls and everything else.

Re: Why NoSQL Equals NoSecurity

#3
We use hadoop, cassandra, and redis in production. I've never found Information Week to be a high quality source of information, and unfortunately this is no exception. Data systems almost always rely on being in segmented and protected portions of a network with access being controlled by applications and firewalls.

Overall this article struck me as having an axe to grind. I wouldn't put, SQL Server, Oracle, MySQL or any other database on the web with open access. Just like we don't do that with any of our NoSQL solutions. Generally, I've found that security granularity is not as robust in the newer Big Data tools, but that was the same argument against MySQL and Postgres a decade ago.

* Edit: Since we are playing on names, apparently Information Week = Information Weak.

Re: Why NoSQL Equals NoSecurity

#4
Sybase and Oracle do have pretty good security solution when you dive deep into them, but I gotta question the whole premise of the article. I have always believed if a outsider can get to your database / datastore then you already have a ton of problems.

Re: Why NoSQL Equals NoSecurity

#5
The article doesn't make it clear what sort of security features the author would like to see in NoSQL databases beyond SSL support, which they then admit is offered by MongoDB's "commercial offering". Never mind that the commercial version is, I'm assuming, the one that is used by all of the financial institutions the author is worried about.

I'm curious though -- what security features (if any) does HN think NoSQL DBs are missing?

Re: Why NoSQL Equals NoSecurity

#6
I'm the author of a (very) new NoSQL datastore called Artifact (http://zv.github.com/artifact/), that, admittedly, is very prototypical and is not representative of MongoDB, Couch, Riak or any of the other major players. I'm also a vulnerability researcher who makes his way in the world finding and dissecting security bugs and holes in network infrastructure.

I feel this article misrepresents a lot of facts about security in the same way that articles discussing the relative security of passwords misrepresent security.

Here's what I mean

Question: Whats the most obvious way to attack a system? Answer: Guess Passwords.

Because this is the most obvious way to attack computer systems, an undue amount of attention is paid to the topic because it's the only way we're aware of. In reality the vast majority of systems compromised happen because of memory corruption vulnerabilities, or in recent years, (predominantly) web bugs like SQLi and LFI. Explaining the dynamics of taking control of a program through smashing the stack and getting EIP is tough, at least in contrast to explaining how guessing passwords works. So people worry that "their passwords aren't secure" despite that any real black hat deleted D8.dic off their harddrive years ago. Thus, theres a million articles and sites on how secure your password is, but not that many to check if you've got address randomization enabled.

Are Blackhats trying to read your NoSQL stores after staging an internal attack? Possibly, but not nearly as likely as the fact that you've got xp_cmdshell enabled. Attacking MongoDB is tractable, and provides numerous opportunities for a wide nop sled w/ memory mapped files and more than enough opportunity for use-after-free attacks in objects, but the same (and then some!) can be said of any modern SQL database.

The fact that query strings are safe in every major NoSQL datastore is such a massive advantage over SQL DBs that, even if you're using prepared statements, NoSQL is almost assuredly more secure in a day to day context, except against zero-days (Which we can reasonably say are less frequent in established datastores, irrespective of their design decisions).

The fact that he quasi-attacks stateful firewall security in the article is pretty much baseless, clever TCP bugs are long since worn out, and all the things that mainstream developers have thought is clever like firewalk(8) haven't been effective since I was 11. It's not unreasonable to trust major commercial firewalls for anything you'd trust SSH for. It's not reasonable to trust C/C++ applications in general, as even the most valorous efforts at secure software have turned up short (The beautiful irony here may be that SSH, as trusted as it is, has had numerous pre-auth exploits in it, as it is written in C++)

Finally, let's be real, as an article aside -- SSL does absolutely nothing. Every single year there are multiple complete breaks in what SSL is supposed to do, both practical and theoretical. These complete breaks are regularly released with executables, so don't give me that "We're only raising the ba-" Nope, ASLR and W^X raise the bar, you could argue SSL widens your attack surface on anything but HTTP transactions. Furthermore, if MITM is the biggest thing you're worried about then I'd encourage you to download any of the latest XML parsing libraries or PDF readers to rectify that -- it's tragically only minor exaggeration to say attacking these complex, loosely interacting components such as parsers to stage a more complex internal attack is organizational computer hacking in 2012.

Re: Why NoSQL Equals NoSecurity

#7
WTF? If you can't trust your network, OS, and user level access, how are you going to trust a DB ACL? I'll put everything up against Information Week using a caching layer (Re: memcached), which has unfettered access without security from an external layer. Non-NoSQL don't magically make security a non-issue; what a joke; in all cases, equally, one has to be aware and diligent about securing your network.

Re: Why NoSQL Equals NoSecurity

#8
How much information from highly secured RDBMSs is leaked and lost on a daily basis? How much of that leakage is prevented by the database's security mechanism, vs. that of the application connecting to it?

And to pick on certain things - does SSL connections REALLY matter? If you're running over an untrusted network (bad idea, in general), why not just use IPSEC?

Re: Why NoSQL Equals NoSecurity

#9
post #2

This article makes it sound like relational databases are the pinacle of security. Sure, they have usernames and passwords and other controls, but the data is still usually stored unencrypted. I don't think putting a few username/password credentials onto the datastore will make it much more secure, especially if I can put those same access controls into a database access layer. In the end you need to defense in dept…

I haven't tried it myself, but Redis has support for simple authentication at least. http://redis.io/topics/security

Re: Why NoSQL Equals NoSecurity

#10
post #9
post #2

This article makes it sound like relational databases are the pinacle of security. Sure, they have usernames and passwords and other controls, but the data is still usually stored unencrypted. I don't think putting a few username/password credentials onto the datastore will make it much more secure, especially if I can put those same access controls into a database access layer. In the end you need to defense in dept…

I haven't tried it myself, but Redis has support for simple authentication at least. http://redis.io/topics/security

Just in case you want to open up your Redis instance to the internet?

Sometimes I think people like antirez add these features just so an article isn't published proclaiming Redis security to be broken because of no password authentication.

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