Charles Ponzi also forgot to run with the money. But Ponzi only got 12.5 years.
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Sam Bankman-Fried Convicted
441–450 of 1001 posts
Re: Sam Bankman-Fried Convicted
#442I was reading the trial report by Inner City Press. The AUSAs were incredibly thorough and strategic. The evidences were air-tight, the cross-examination was masterfully controlled with precision and incisiveness, and of course the closing argument was forceful. It was a great joy to read the report, as if I was watching an extended episode of The Good Fight. On the other hand, the defense was really weak, quite hand…
The defense really had no option. Several of Bankman-Fried's previous defense teams quit on him due to his behavior. Even in this trial, during a session with just the judge, the defense made an objection to a question, the judge sustained it, but Bankman-Fried answered anyways. His own defense team asked him where had he been this entire trial because the objection was sustained, you didn't have to answer that. Bank…
Yeah, I remember that. It was appalling.
Re: Sam Bankman-Fried Convicted
#443Mark Karpelès did nothing wrong!
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Re: Sam Bankman-Fried Convicted
#444How many years?
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Re: Sam Bankman-Fried Convicted
#445I'm curious how the sentencing goes, not only for SBF but those around him that took deals. In my limited view of US cases, it often seems prosecutors let off lightly anyone that will testify in return for their whale. Sometimes feels it's more symbolic justice that way than real.
That depends heavily on what you think the purpose of the justice system is. For most purposes, nailing the whale and breaking up the party is enough to set an example and send a message. There isnt much value in incarcerating additional people simply for the sake of punishment/revenge. The other individuals are unlikely to cause future harm.
I tend to agree that both practically and legally, when you’re dealing with a fraud as big as this one, that successfully prosecuting the Big Man At The Top is the best strategy.
People might scoff at mid-level fraud “doers” getting a slap on the wrist deal for their testimony, but the alternative where you go full scorched earth and fail to get a conviction would be terrible for the defrauded and the system beyond them. Capitalists (i.e. the owners of capital, the investor class, in this case) love a system where you don’t really have to quadruple check that a financial document is valid. Who can blame them? I certainly wouldn’t want to live in a world where something like FDIC doesn’t exist or where fraudsters can easily rip people off with low chances of jail time if/when the operation goes belly up.
Re: Sam Bankman-Fried Convicted
#446Anyone know where to get good details? Specifically: do they know where the money went? If not, how did they prove intent (I assume they proved intent)? Edit: another thing I'm wondering is about jurisdiction, since most of this occurred offshore and didn't involve US customers.
Molly White had excellent writeups for the entire trial. She even did excellent multi-hour livestreams going over her notes for the portion of the trial where she was physically present at the courtroom.
Re: Sam Bankman-Fried Convicted
#447In under five hours! The jury was home in time for dinner. One question for legal people—why is there such a long gap between conviction and sentencing? In this case, the sentence won't be set until March of next year.
Having been called upon to serve on a jury before, I will admit that I tend to err on the side of the accused, but here the guy did everything, often in his own words, to tank any reasonable defense and doubt one could have. I followed the case and shook with disbelief at some of the things that were said. I was amazed at the initially lenient treatment he got. My jaw landed on the floor when I saw python code that d…
> I will admit that I tend to err on the side of the accused
I believe that's what you're supposed to do, as implied by "beyond a reasonable doubt" -- so good job!
Re: Sam Bankman-Fried Convicted
#448This makes me very happy. I was honestly slightly worried that if I ever saw SBF in person, I would be unable to stop myself from kicking him in the nuts. Since I was a victim of the Winklevoss twins' GUSD unregistered security scam (Gemini Earn) [1], there has not been a day since ~November 2022 that I haven't wished something kind of bad happened to SBF.
To be clear, I genuinely am not advocating for violence, but I'm saying that if he walked free, and if I were to see him just casually sauntering along in NYC, I think I would have an overwhelming compulsion to hurt him, and then I would go to jail, which I don't think I'd enjoy, so it's a much better outcome for me personally if he's behind bars.
Well, upon typing this out, I guess if he gave me the 13 grand that was taken from me, I'd be willing to forgive him.
[1] I've posted about this before, but just to reiterate, not my opinion, but the SEC's https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2023-7
Re: Sam Bankman-Fried Convicted
#449Earlier quoted context omitted.
They always appeal.. "Dad, why is the American government the best government? "Because of our endless appeals system" Thank You for Smoking
Appealing a criminal conviction is quite hard. It's certainly his right to file an appeal, but he's likely going to be detained for the duration of the appeals, and the likelihood of being successful seems pretty low to me.
I wouldn't agree that it is necessarily hard -- I've done dozens of appeals -- but often with trials there is not a lot of meat left on the bone; most appeals I see are trying to make mountains out of molehills.
What will usually happen is that the defense team will find dozens of trial errors, but none of them will get over the bar of being serious enough that they would have swayed the jury, since the evidence presented was too conclusive. So, the appellate court will note that the trial judge could have done a better job, but then leave the conviction intact.
Most criminal convictions in the USA are only overturned on constitutional violations relating to searches and seizures, probably none of which apply here.
Re: Sam Bankman-Fried Convicted
#450I'm curious how the sentencing goes, not only for SBF but those around him that took deals. In my limited view of US cases, it often seems prosecutors let off lightly anyone that will testify in return for their whale. Sometimes feels it's more symbolic justice that way than real.
That depends heavily on what you think the purpose of the justice system is. For most purposes, nailing the whale and breaking up the party is enough to set an example and send a message. There isnt much value in incarcerating additional people simply for the sake of punishment/revenge. The other individuals are unlikely to cause future harm.
>There isnt much value in incarcerating additional people simply for the sake of punishment/revenge.
The idea is that everyone knowingly involved goes to jail. This way others presented with opportunity to go along with such fraud /know/ there is a very, very real consequence. Rather than "CEO could go down for this but what the hell, I'll go along with it."
It's not retribution, it's justice.