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From S3 to R2: An economic opportunity

dansdatathoughts.substack.com

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Re: From S3 to R2: An economic opportunity

#101

Post by ignoramous »

simonsarris wrote: post #2

Cloudflare has been attacking the S3 egress problem by creating Sippy: https://developers.cloudflare.com/r2/data-migration/sippy/ It allows you to incrementally migrate off of providers like S3 and onto the egress-free Cloudflare R2. Very clever idea. He calls R2 an undiscovered gem and IMO this is the gem's undiscovered gem. (Understandable since Sippy is very new and still in beta)

CacheReserve is a neat way to relegate S3 and front it with R2 instead: https://developers.cloudflare.com/cache/advanced-configurati...

And, if you're in the same boat as someone down-thread complaining about Cloudflare's uptime in recent weeks, you can keep S3 + Cloudfront (or Lightsail Buckets + Lightsail CDN) and S3 + CacheReserve on R2, which is what we do, and flip between them with DNS.

Re: From S3 to R2: An economic opportunity

#102

Post by stingraycharles »

mt_ wrote: post #94
josevalerio wrote: post #80

Here’s a tweet from Corey Quinn describing how bonkers R2 pricing is: > let’s remember that the internet is 1-to-many. If 1 million people download that 1GB this month, my cost with @cloudflare R2 this way rounds up to 13¢. With @awscloud S3 it’s $59,247.52. https://x.com/quinnypig/status/1443076111651401731?s=46

Won't you have the same problem with R2, once your data is in that provider?

No, because CloudFlare doesn’t charge for egress traffic.

Re: From S3 to R2: An economic opportunity

#103

Post by stingraycharles »

josevalerio wrote: post #80

Here’s a tweet from Corey Quinn describing how bonkers R2 pricing is: > let’s remember that the internet is 1-to-many. If 1 million people download that 1GB this month, my cost with @cloudflare R2 this way rounds up to 13¢. With @awscloud S3 it’s $59,247.52. https://x.com/quinnypig/status/1443076111651401731?s=46

To be fair, 1 million downloads @ 1GB is a lot of data transfer. CloudFlare is likely losing money on this.

Re: From S3 to R2: An economic opportunity

#104

Post by BohuTANG »

We(Databend Labs) benchmarked #TPCH-SF100 on S3, Wasabi, Backblaze B2, and Cloudflare R2: #S3 leads with its direct connect feature. #Wasabi offers good performance. #B2 and #R2 may not be suitable for big data needs

Details: https://twitter.com/DatabendLabs/status/1719580350677237987

Re: From S3 to R2: An economic opportunity

#105

Post by glenngillen »

josevalerio wrote: post #80

Here’s a tweet from Corey Quinn describing how bonkers R2 pricing is: > let’s remember that the internet is 1-to-many. If 1 million people download that 1GB this month, my cost with @cloudflare R2 this way rounds up to 13¢. With @awscloud S3 it’s $59,247.52. https://x.com/quinnypig/status/1443076111651401731?s=46

I left AWS in 2019, so my knowledge on the current recommendations & pricing is dated. But even back then we were strongly discouraging usage like this for S3 for both security and cost reasons. Cloudfront should be in front of your bucket serving the objects, and IIRC it’ll be 75% cheaper in most cases. Still doesn’t bring it within even a couple of orders of magnitude of the R2 price, but this comparison does feel like it’s painting a best case versus a worst case. And the worst case being an approach that goes against best practice recommendations that are at least half a decade old at this point (I will concede people absolutely still do it though!).

Re: From S3 to R2: An economic opportunity

#106

Post by PaulHoule »

kkielhofner wrote: post #46
chatmasta wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon doesn't have unit cost for egress. They charge you for the stuff you put through their pipe, while paying their transit providers only for the size of the pipe (or more often, not paying them anything since they just peer directly with them at an exchange point). Amazon uses $/gb as a price gouging mechanism and also a QoS constraint. Every bit you send through their pipe is basically printing money for them,…

AWS egress charges blatantly take advantage of people who have never bought transit or done peering. To them "that's just what bandwidth costs" but anyone who's worked with this stuff (sounds like you and I both) can do the quick math and see what kind of money printing machine this scheme is.

It's also a way to choose your customers.

Some people want to host a lot of warez and pirate movies and stuff but that doesn't monetize very well per GB consumed so pricing bandwidth high means those people never show up, thus saving a lot of trouble for AWS.

I remember when salesforce.com announced a service that would let you serve up web pages out of their database, it was priced crazy high (100-1000x too much) from the viewpoint of "I want to run a blog on this service" but for someone who wanted to put in a form to collect data from customers it was totally affordable. Salesforce knew which customers it wanted and priced accordingly.

Re: From S3 to R2: An economic opportunity

#107

Post by josevalerio »

glenngillen wrote: post #105
josevalerio wrote: post #80

Here’s a tweet from Corey Quinn describing how bonkers R2 pricing is: > let’s remember that the internet is 1-to-many. If 1 million people download that 1GB this month, my cost with @cloudflare R2 this way rounds up to 13¢. With @awscloud S3 it’s $59,247.52. https://x.com/quinnypig/status/1443076111651401731?s=46

I left AWS in 2019, so my knowledge on the current recommendations & pricing is dated. But even back then we were strongly discouraging usage like this for S3 for both security and cost reasons. Cloudfront should be in front of your bucket serving the objects, and IIRC it’ll be 75% cheaper in most cases. Still doesn’t bring it within even a couple of orders of magnitude of the R2 price, but this comparison does feel…

Don’t those volume discounts kick in once you’re doing near 1PB? You’re still paying “normal” CloudFront prices all the way up and it also varies per region :$

https://aws.amazon.com/cloudfront/pricing/

Re: From S3 to R2: An economic opportunity

#108

Post by leiferik »

tehlike wrote: post #88
leiferik wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Backblaze B2 is probably the reference (which has free egress up to 3x data stored - https://www.backblaze.com/blog/2023-product-announcement/ ). I don't know of any public S3-compatible provider that is as cheap as 20$/TB/year (roughly ~$0.0016/GB/mo).

Idrive e2 https://www.idrive.com/object-storage-e2/pricing

I stand corrected! Will bookmark this to take a look at this later. Thank you!

Re: From S3 to R2: An economic opportunity

#109

Post by 12907835202 »

stingraycharles wrote: post #103
josevalerio wrote: post #80

Here’s a tweet from Corey Quinn describing how bonkers R2 pricing is: > let’s remember that the internet is 1-to-many. If 1 million people download that 1GB this month, my cost with @cloudflare R2 this way rounds up to 13¢. With @awscloud S3 it’s $59,247.52. https://x.com/quinnypig/status/1443076111651401731?s=46

To be fair, 1 million downloads @ 1GB is a lot of data transfer. CloudFlare is likely losing money on this.

I'm abusing the hell out of it right now offering GB+ downloads that I used to use Digital Ocean Spaces for. It's saving me $2000-3000 a month since the switch.

Maybe abuse isn't the right word but definitely making the most.

I am a bit scared about being turned off overnight though.

Re: From S3 to R2: An economic opportunity

#110

Post by corbezzoli »

_w1tm wrote: post #97
pests wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question, how is this different than a toll road? An entity creates a road network with a certain size (lanes, capacity/hour, literal traffic) and pays for it by charging individual cars put through the road.

The difference is that Amazon doesn’t own the road, they’re just a truck driver. Amazon customers rent space on the truck and pay whatever the driver asks them for.

Yeah ok but you still need a ticket to board the truck/bus, right? The more people in your family, the more tickets.

The issue isn’t charging for egress, but charging excessively.

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