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One sleepless night can rapidly reverse depression for several days in mice

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Re: One sleepless night can rapidly reverse depression for several days in mice

#151
We have known about sleep deprivation causing a remission in suicidal ideation for a while - we have inferred a depression benefit as well, but it’s nice to have it quantified.

However, we also know resumption of sleep pretty quickly ends the effect. It’s not a sustainable intervention, so much as it an interesting finding for hypothesis generation.

We also see the reverse effect in mania; on balance, regular healthy sleep wins the day.

Re: One sleepless night can rapidly reverse depression for several days in mice

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GPs routinely prescribe SSRIs. Even pediatricians. At least in the US.

A lot of non-psychiatrist doctors prescribe SSRIs around the world, and that's a very good thing. These drugs are safe.

Agreed.

Re: One sleepless night can rapidly reverse depression for several days in mice

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. I’ve tried. My problem is that 3-4 days of no sleep and I’m just about ready to sign off from this life. I’ve managed with 5mg THC pills for years. Never had to increase the dosage. I’ve never ever slept well. But back before kids it was easier to just sleep in if I had to. As best as I can tell, the cause is my adhd or related. My brain will simply. Not. Stop. Racing.

Have you tried exercising (>2h before you go to bed, IME), staying away from screens 4h before bed, and dimming the lights 1h before bed? That was a life-changer for me.

Having to quarantine in a small sauna house after travelling introduced me to the delights of crappy internet, multiple daily cold river swims, and no real lighting outside of a few candles.

Needless to say I went from awful sleep to going to bed as the sun went down (in summer), and not waking up until sunrise, all in the matter of days.

Thinking back on it, I really should get back into that.

Re: One sleepless night can rapidly reverse depression for several days in mice

#155

Having suffered from severe depression for over forty years, this reminds me of when I was 17, 18, etc. and suddenly discovered that if I stayed up for two days, the problem went away. So I knew this a very long time ago; but it always seemed to me that, besides smoking, this was just about one of the worst habits you could develop. By my mid-twenties, I had stopped.

My anxiety now is that using THC to sleep will cause issues long term. But without it I literally cannot get to sleep anymore. Edit: I regret pulling focus off parent comment and OP, but also deeply appreciate everyone’s comments.

Look into weaker THC analogues like delta-8-THC or delta-10-THC. They have weaker binding profiles and half-lives than normal THC does.

Same thing with CBD and its analogues.

CBN will knock me out and it isn't active at CB1 like THC is, so it doesn't get you high.

Re: One sleepless night can rapidly reverse depression for several days in mice

#156
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. I’ve tried. My problem is that 3-4 days of no sleep and I’m just about ready to sign off from this life. I’ve managed with 5mg THC pills for years. Never had to increase the dosage. I’ve never ever slept well. But back before kids it was easier to just sleep in if I had to. As best as I can tell, the cause is my adhd or related. My brain will simply. Not. Stop. Racing.

I used to have the same sleep problem (head won't stop racing), and mindfulness exercises throughout the day have greatly improved things for me. In a way it feels like the ability to turn it down for a time, long enough to get so tired it doesn't start back up again. One trick I found myself is to visualise things in the noise from your closed eyes. Try to interpret something you can vaguely see, and then try to vis…

> visualise things in the noise from your closed eyes

Ooh, the visualization whirlwind. This is the first time I’ve ever hear anyone talk about it or had to give it a name. At least for me it’s just tons of images flashing before my eyes, rapidly changing, only tenuously guided by my mind.

Re: One sleepless night can rapidly reverse depression for several days in mice

#157
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I feel like you exactly identified the long term problem in the same paragraph. I learned years ago that any chemical that helps you sleep ensures that you can't sleep without it. I've used everything from thc to Benadryl to lavender and everything in between. It all had the same effects: slowly degrading effectiveness and sleeplessness without it. Pro-tip: find the source of your insomnia. Is it chemical or is it…

Yeah. I’ve tried. My problem is that 3-4 days of no sleep and I’m just about ready to sign off from this life. I’ve managed with 5mg THC pills for years. Never had to increase the dosage. I’ve never ever slept well. But back before kids it was easier to just sleep in if I had to. As best as I can tell, the cause is my adhd or related. My brain will simply. Not. Stop. Racing.

This sounds familiar, I got to a point a few years ago where even if I could get to sleep I'd wake up at 3-4am with every last problem racing around my mind, but have never felt good with any amount of sleep.

In the end I went to the GP for anxiety and came out with a depression diagnosis and a bottle of Lexapro. Lucky for me I didn't get the crazy side effects and in combination with melatonin at least getting to sleep is no longer a problem.

In the past I've also found that deliberately clearing my thoughts is a way to slip from 'day mode' to those dozy random thoughts, but its often hard to remember in the moment and doesn't always work.

Re: One sleepless night can rapidly reverse depression for several days in mice

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or strenuous physical activity all day. The lack of strenuous physical activity all day is a real problem with modern life. We did not evolve to be sedentary.

I’ve added an hour of exercise to my day and while it hasn’t solve my sleeping problems, I can’t live without it anymore. It just makes everything else feel easier.

Same. Nor does all-day physical activity

Re: One sleepless night can rapidly reverse depression for several days in mice

#159
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tried exercising (>2h before you go to bed, IME), staying away from screens 4h before bed, and dimming the lights 1h before bed? That was a life-changer for me.

Having to quarantine in a small sauna house after travelling introduced me to the delights of crappy internet, multiple daily cold river swims, and no real lighting outside of a few candles. Needless to say I went from awful sleep to going to bed as the sun went down (in summer), and not waking up until sunrise, all in the matter of days. Thinking back on it, I really should get back into that.

Almost as if we’re not really built to do anything else :)

Re: One sleepless night can rapidly reverse depression for several days in mice

#160
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My anxiety now is that using THC to sleep will cause issues long term. But without it I literally cannot get to sleep anymore. Edit: I regret pulling focus off parent comment and OP, but also deeply appreciate everyone’s comments.

You'll get plenty of advice and it's worth evaluating it all (as we're all different), but trazodone has been a miracle worker in aiding sleep. It's cheap, well understood, and the only negative aspect I've encountered is the risk of priapism (which can sound like a joke but should be taken very seriously)

Did nothing for me
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