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Light can make water evaporate without heat

news.mit.edu

31–40 of 198 posts

Re: Light can make water evaporate without heat

#31
post #2

They give current solar desalination efficiency as 1.5 kilos of water per square meter. Shouldn't there be a time component?

They're using Journalist Power Units. You're lucky it's not in houses per year.

How many Libraries of Congress full of water is this?

Re: Light can make water evaporate without heat

#32
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeh I read it as though it’s a form of catalyst. Ultimately the light is changing the threshold energy at which water can evaporate. Similar to the photoelectric effect. Similar say to an enzyme. All these environmental changes to the reaction lower the ‘action’ energy making the reaction vastly more efficient or possible in an environment that it wasn’t possible in previously.

Enzymes catalyze the breaking of molecular bonds. The embodied energy of a phase transition does not pay attention to what path you took to cross it. There’s no “threshold” between phases of water. For H20 to move from liquid water to vapor, energy must be added. There’s no catalyst. So either we’ve discovered some new physics since I last studied thermodynamics, or this isn’t an accurate analogy.

It could be that the energy required to break the hydrogen bond from random collisions is higher than the theoretical minimum because the angle of a typical collision "wastes" energy in imparting vibration or rotation of the water molecule rather than just imparting "escape velocity".

Just a wild guess though. Haven't yet read the article.

Re: Light can make water evaporate without heat

#33
post #17

I can't wrap my head around this story. What does it mean in thermodynamic terms? Isn't there a fixed amount of energy per mass that it takes to convert liquid water into vapor? Why does it matter that the energy comes from light?

Yeah, I have the same question. The blurb is too unclear but suggests it's almost more of a mechanical thing: the photon bumps into some molecules that are almost already on the gas side of things and that's enough to turn them into fog. So it's not like the water is heating up and then jumping out, it's more like it's getting knocked to the gas side, like in a humidifier.

Re: Light can make water evaporate without heat

#34
post #17

I can't wrap my head around this story. What does it mean in thermodynamic terms? Isn't there a fixed amount of energy per mass that it takes to convert liquid water into vapor? Why does it matter that the energy comes from light?

> In recent years, some researchers have been puzzled upon finding that water in their experiments, which was held in a sponge-like material known as a hydrogel, was evaporating at a higher rate than could be explained by the amount of heat, or thermal energy, that the water was receiving. And the excess has been significant — a doubling, or even a tripling or more, of the theoretical maximum rate. Apparently it evap…

[deleted]

Re: Light can make water evaporate without heat

#35
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're using Journalist Power Units. You're lucky it's not in houses per year.

How many Libraries of Congress full of water is this?

I love seeing insane units like this in the press. Dishwashers, giraffes, bowling balls, etc. Americans will measure in anything but the metric system.

Re: Light can make water evaporate without heat

#37
Please excuse my understanding as a layman, but could this be related to the electromagnetic absorption spectrum of water?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/Absorpti...

It seems that the "green" wavelength that the article cites is exactly where the lowest point of absorption is. Could this suggest that heat is created as a result of electromagnetic resistance? (Like water molecules vibrating as a result of microwave radiation?)

Re: Light can make water evaporate without heat

#38
post #17

I can't wrap my head around this story. What does it mean in thermodynamic terms? Isn't there a fixed amount of energy per mass that it takes to convert liquid water into vapor? Why does it matter that the energy comes from light?

Presumably the surrounding air is below 100% humidity. So the light isn’t heating up and vaporizing the water, but rather helping the air pick it up faster.

Re: Light can make water evaporate without heat

#39
post #37

Please excuse my understanding as a layman, but could this be related to the electromagnetic absorption spectrum of water? https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/Absorpti... It seems that the "green" wavelength that the article cites is exactly where the lowest point of absorption is. Could this suggest that heat is created as a result of electromagnetic resistance? (Like water molecules vibrating as a r…

> Could this suggest that heat is created as a result of electromagnetic resistance?

Lightbulbs getting hot would suggest that is correct, but maybe I'm missing what you're saying

Re: Light can make water evaporate without heat

#40
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeh I read it as though it’s a form of catalyst. Ultimately the light is changing the threshold energy at which water can evaporate. Similar to the photoelectric effect. Similar say to an enzyme. All these environmental changes to the reaction lower the ‘action’ energy making the reaction vastly more efficient or possible in an environment that it wasn’t possible in previously.

Enzymes catalyze the breaking of molecular bonds. The embodied energy of a phase transition does not pay attention to what path you took to cross it. There’s no “threshold” between phases of water. For H20 to move from liquid water to vapor, energy must be added. There’s no catalyst. So either we’ve discovered some new physics since I last studied thermodynamics, or this isn’t an accurate analogy.

> For H20 to move from liquid water to vapor, energy must be added.

I think that is a wrong assumption. Liquids will naturally evaporate even with 0 external energy, assuming there is not too much pressure in the surrounding atmosphere.

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