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How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

ycombinator.com

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Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#171

Post by bjornsing »

tmarsden wrote: post #165
bjornsing wrote: post #148

I don’t think I’ve ever seen two people laugh so much over such a sad topic… Also, I think it’s a mistake to talk about exploitation and blame when your startup is not working. Honestly, most startups don’t work out and it’s not really anybody’s fault. It’s kind of the default.

Injecting humor into a dark or sad situation is very common. It's a way to lighten the mood a bit when the topic is difficult. People joke about death for example and that's a much more serious topic than a startup cap table.

I’m all for some black humor. But this felt very “forced” to me.

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#172

Post by alexawarrior2 »

_yf4k wrote: post #91

After having worked at four startups, including two as CTO, I have zero remaining equity or financial upside from any of the startup equity. This is the bitter take away, your equity will most likely amount to nothing unless the company is on a clear path to IPO/ acquisition or a promise of share buy back during the time you're at the company. This is a higher bar than simple profitability. The reason you work at a s…

Amen brother/sister. Was founder, co-founder, early employee, or investor in eleven startups, ten of which went out of business or were bought with no net equity earnings for myself, one of them had a $250m exit from which I netted $130k, after seven years. It's not that retirement-level-net-earnings startups never happen, just that they happen only about 1 out of every 1000 times on average according to my research. The exception being, every additional $1m of net worth you have before you found increases your odds of success, up to around 50% success rate with a net worth over $10m (going towards HNWI territory). So being middle class your startup investments are lottery-level, but if you're already rich they're more of a calculated investment.

tl;dr only capitalists - the existing 1% - have an odds-on shot at startup success

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#173

Post by cutemonster »

yu3zhou4 wrote: post #154
paxys wrote: post #147

I have seen so many of their examples happen first hand in the industry. - Lead engineer works 100 hour weeks to keep the company running for a below-market salary and 0.05% equity while the founders and product/sales leads constantly sell shares on the secondary market, buy fancy toys and travel the world. - Technical cofounder gets a 3% equity because the "business guy" came up with the idea and deserves the other…

Thx, I just learned about Type A / Type B thanks to you mentioning this

Maybe you'd find the Big Five personality model interesting as well (if you haven't seen), in particular assertiveness vs agreeableness

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#174

Post by axlee »

pc86 wrote: post #141
Aurornis wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But getting "founding engineer" level equity on the order of 0.5% (before dilution!) seems to basically be a scam, where you're working 2x the amount for lower salaries than the market, 0.5% at an early stage with below market compensation, no refreshers with future rounds, negligible comp increase with future rounds, and below-market salary is indeed a scam. A lot of startups are happy to operate this way. On the…

Serious question: if you're truly being paid a market-rate salary -- e.g. roughly as much as you could make at any other VC-funded enterprise, any FAANG company, etc, not the same $110k/yr you'd make at a bank or consulting firm -- why would you get any equity? The whole point of equity is that you have skin in the game and "work harder" (whatever that means) to make the company a success. At least in the early days…

The point is also to keep people around. Software engineers are notoriously feeble, as they get offers extremely regularly.

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#175

Post by throwaway092323 »

l33t7332273 wrote: post #81
onion2k wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

while bossing around engineers much smarter than you How much smarter than you are they if you've taken an effective shortcut to getting paid significantly more while doing a lot less work? Working harder, taking all the stress, and earning less doesn't sound that smart.

>How much smarter than you are they if you've taken an effective shortcut to getting paid significantly more while doing a lot less work I find it deeply troubling that so many people conflate “being smart” with “min-maxing labor and earning”. It reflects the strange belief that the best people are the best capitalists. I take issue with the thesis that money is crystallized virtue where more of one is more of the ot…

> I find it deeply troubling that so many people conflate “being smart” with “min-maxing labor and earning”

And they're veeeery vocal other people trying to get something for nothing.

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#176

Post by alexawarrior2 »

ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #3

How to get rich in tech as a mediocre programmer: 1. Transfer to a TPM/QA Manager role at somewhere like Amazon or Microsoft. Bar is much lower to get into this role. 2. Get hired into a higher level than you could in a SWE role. 3. Transfer within the company to being an SDM 4. Now you are one level higher, in a management role, that would have taken you 5+ years of grinding and some luck to get into. 5. Spend a few…

If that's how you want to spend your limited time on earth, more power too you. Sounds like one of Dante's circles of hell to me.

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#177

Post by ditonal »

pc86 wrote: post #141
Aurornis wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But getting "founding engineer" level equity on the order of 0.5% (before dilution!) seems to basically be a scam, where you're working 2x the amount for lower salaries than the market, 0.5% at an early stage with below market compensation, no refreshers with future rounds, negligible comp increase with future rounds, and below-market salary is indeed a scam. A lot of startups are happy to operate this way. On the…

Serious question: if you're truly being paid a market-rate salary -- e.g. roughly as much as you could make at any other VC-funded enterprise, any FAANG company, etc, not the same $110k/yr you'd make at a bank or consulting firm -- why would you get any equity? The whole point of equity is that you have skin in the game and "work harder" (whatever that means) to make the company a success. At least in the early days…

Because FAANG pays equity too.

Google will pay a senior engineer 200k base and 250k in liquid stock a year for 450k TC. That stock is also incredibly low risk.

If a startup paying market means 450k cash, absolutely there’s no need for equity. But if it means matching the 200k base then obviously you’re screwed with no equity. And I’m theory it should be a lot of equity given the much higher risk premium.

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#178

Post by actionfromafar »

pc86 wrote: post #141
Aurornis wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But getting "founding engineer" level equity on the order of 0.5% (before dilution!) seems to basically be a scam, where you're working 2x the amount for lower salaries than the market, 0.5% at an early stage with below market compensation, no refreshers with future rounds, negligible comp increase with future rounds, and below-market salary is indeed a scam. A lot of startups are happy to operate this way. On the…

Serious question: if you're truly being paid a market-rate salary -- e.g. roughly as much as you could make at any other VC-funded enterprise, any FAANG company, etc, not the same $110k/yr you'd make at a bank or consulting firm -- why would you get any equity? The whole point of equity is that you have skin in the game and "work harder" (whatever that means) to make the company a success. At least in the early days…

I'm thinking, so they don't quit on a whim.

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#179

Post by lucb1e »

satvikpendem wrote: post #9

One of the top comments on the YouTube video attached to the article talks about how someone wasted their 20s working as the founding engineer (employee #6 of a 6-person startup) and when the company exited for $100 MM, they only got 100k and are still working at 40 years of age while the other 5, presumably having cofounder-level equity, are retired. This is the true risk of startups, and, if you're looking to maxim…

> the YouTube video attached to the article

Which article? The two sentences below the video pointing you to watch the episode, did I miss something?

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#180

Post by sokoloff »

axlee wrote: post #174
pc86 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question: if you're truly being paid a market-rate salary -- e.g. roughly as much as you could make at any other VC-funded enterprise, any FAANG company, etc, not the same $110k/yr you'd make at a bank or consulting firm -- why would you get any equity? The whole point of equity is that you have skin in the game and "work harder" (whatever that means) to make the company a success. At least in the early days…

The point is also to keep people around. Software engineers are notoriously feeble, as they get offers extremely regularly.

Do you mean “fickle” rather than “feeble”?
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