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How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

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Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#51

Post by VirusNewbie »

ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #48
VirusNewbie wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TPM at Amazon is a very high bar, and usually requires a technical background. I have one old coworker who got it, and didn't make it very long, saying it was too challenging. I've never seen someone on the TPM ladder directly manage SWEs at google. Microsoft is different, the whole place is a shit show.

The L6 TPM bar at amazon is way below the L6 SDE/SDM bar. Its not even close

If you have first hand experience, that's better than my anecdote so I will defer. I was going off of the job descriptions, which basically made it seem like an L6 TPM needed to be both an L6 SDE AND a PM.

Very possible i'm wrong though.

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#52

Post by mushufasa »

Apocryphon wrote: post #39
KRAKRISMOTT wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CEO is the sales guy. If you have worked in B2B places before, very often the CEO is completely non-technical.

Can't the CEO be the product guy?

Yes. If you're good at product you're typically good at sales. If you're good at sales you may not necessarily be good at product.

Sales is about navigating conversations to match someone's problem to a solution. Product is about navigating conversations to understand problems and figure out what the solution should be in the first place.

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#53

Post by atleastoptimal »

ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #3

How to get rich in tech as a mediocre programmer: 1. Transfer to a TPM/QA Manager role at somewhere like Amazon or Microsoft. Bar is much lower to get into this role. 2. Get hired into a higher level than you could in a SWE role. 3. Transfer within the company to being an SDM 4. Now you are one level higher, in a management role, that would have taken you 5+ years of grinding and some luck to get into. 5. Spend a few…

I can't believe the bar is generally lower if it's apparently that easy to get paid 400-500k after a few years. What are the barriers to entry?

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#54

Post by dilyevsky »

ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #3

How to get rich in tech as a mediocre programmer: 1. Transfer to a TPM/QA Manager role at somewhere like Amazon or Microsoft. Bar is much lower to get into this role. 2. Get hired into a higher level than you could in a SWE role. 3. Transfer within the company to being an SDM 4. Now you are one level higher, in a management role, that would have taken you 5+ years of grinding and some luck to get into. 5. Spend a few…

That's a nice fantasy but most technically minded folks will quickly discover that political savviness required to pull this off is in fact a skill and the one they generally don't possess. Also, watch the hands:

> 2. Get hired into a higher level than you could in a SWE role.

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#55

Post by Ancalagon »

nine_zeros wrote: post #6
ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #3

How to get rich in tech as a mediocre programmer: 1. Transfer to a TPM/QA Manager role at somewhere like Amazon or Microsoft. Bar is much lower to get into this role. 2. Get hired into a higher level than you could in a SWE role. 3. Transfer within the company to being an SDM 4. Now you are one level higher, in a management role, that would have taken you 5+ years of grinding and some luck to get into. 5. Spend a few…

Do not work at Amazon or amazon-like companies. They are just not worth it from a mental health, wlb, or career perspective for engineers. Find engineering/product first companies. Big tech ain't it any longer.

I actually would echo this at the skills level. A lot of the bigger companies kind of pigeonhole your skillset to one tech stack that is very company-specific and introducing new tech can be very difficult. At least that was my experience in my last three big corporate positions (now at a series C startup).

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#56

Post by Cyberdogs7 »

ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #3

How to get rich in tech as a mediocre programmer: 1. Transfer to a TPM/QA Manager role at somewhere like Amazon or Microsoft. Bar is much lower to get into this role. 2. Get hired into a higher level than you could in a SWE role. 3. Transfer within the company to being an SDM 4. Now you are one level higher, in a management role, that would have taken you 5+ years of grinding and some luck to get into. 5. Spend a few…

I feel personally called out, as this was very much my path. However, I did continue to train my engineering skills and would be very embarrassed if any of the senior engineers in my team didn't think I had the same technical skills as them.

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#57

Post by liquidpele »

mushufasa wrote: post #27
ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #3

How to get rich in tech as a mediocre programmer: 1. Transfer to a TPM/QA Manager role at somewhere like Amazon or Microsoft. Bar is much lower to get into this role. 2. Get hired into a higher level than you could in a SWE role. 3. Transfer within the company to being an SDM 4. Now you are one level higher, in a management role, that would have taken you 5+ years of grinding and some luck to get into. 5. Spend a few…

> So the CEO can sit on his hands the whole time the product is developed, but then does reap huge gains. This sounds off to me. Even if the CEO isn't a technical engineer literally working on the code, they are ultimately accountable for getting engineers and designers to build the right product. Building the right product is massively hard. Usually, it takes several wrong takes to get it right. 90% of startups fail…

> Even if the CEO isn't a technical engineer literally working on the code, they are ultimately accountable for getting engineers and designers to build the right product.

You haven't had to have meetings with a CEO before, have you?

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#58

Post by satvikpendem »

Berone wrote: post #37
satvikpendem wrote: post #9

One of the top comments on the YouTube video attached to the article talks about how someone wasted their 20s working as the founding engineer (employee #6 of a 6-person startup) and when the company exited for $100 MM, they only got 100k and are still working at 40 years of age while the other 5, presumably having cofounder-level equity, are retired. This is the true risk of startups, and, if you're looking to maxim…

The path to getting into these founder / c-suite roles is those founding engineer roles in which you can learn how to scale and operate these ventures. The founding engineer role at 0.5% is not meant to be a role to retire on, but a stepping stone to those bigger roles.

Not really, it's better to just start your own startup instead, there is not much need to spend years as a founding engineer before becoming a founder, you might learn some skills but it's nothing you can't learn yourself, as evidenced by the people who are first time founders who did not previously work at a startup. If you get to some scale and get acquired (or even shut down), you can leverage that for future higher positions that a founding employee would not get you.

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#59

Post by mushufasa »

liquidpele wrote: post #57
mushufasa wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So the CEO can sit on his hands the whole time the product is developed, but then does reap huge gains. This sounds off to me. Even if the CEO isn't a technical engineer literally working on the code, they are ultimately accountable for getting engineers and designers to build the right product. Building the right product is massively hard. Usually, it takes several wrong takes to get it right. 90% of startups fail…

> Even if the CEO isn't a technical engineer literally working on the code, they are ultimately accountable for getting engineers and designers to build the right product. You haven't had to have meetings with a CEO before, have you?

You've never been a CEO before?

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#60

Post by Ancalagon »

Berone wrote: post #37
satvikpendem wrote: post #9

One of the top comments on the YouTube video attached to the article talks about how someone wasted their 20s working as the founding engineer (employee #6 of a 6-person startup) and when the company exited for $100 MM, they only got 100k and are still working at 40 years of age while the other 5, presumably having cofounder-level equity, are retired. This is the true risk of startups, and, if you're looking to maxim…

The path to getting into these founder / c-suite roles is those founding engineer roles in which you can learn how to scale and operate these ventures. The founding engineer role at 0.5% is not meant to be a role to retire on, but a stepping stone to those bigger roles.

Except I personally know a number of CTO/co-founders that never served their time that way and went straight from Google/FB/big-tech to CTO..
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