How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#21

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Nov 02, 2023, 5:31 PM UTC

onion2k wrote: post #16

ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #3

How to get rich in tech as a mediocre programmer: 1. Transfer to a TPM/QA Manager role at somewhere like Amazon or Microsoft. Bar is much lower to get into this role. 2. Get hired into a higher level than you could in a SWE role. 3. Transfer within the company to being an SDM 4. Now you are one level higher, in a management role, that would have taken you 5+ years of grinding and some luck to get into. 5. Spend a few…

while bossing around engineers much smarter than you How much smarter than you are they if you've taken an effective shortcut to getting paid significantly more while doing a lot less work? Working harder, taking all the stress, and earning less doesn't sound that smart.

[deleted]

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#22

Post by raincom » Thu, Nov 02, 2023, 5:31 PM UTC

lakomen wrote: post #17

ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #3

How to get rich in tech as a mediocre programmer: 1. Transfer to a TPM/QA Manager role at somewhere like Amazon or Microsoft. Bar is much lower to get into this role. 2. Get hired into a higher level than you could in a SWE role. 3. Transfer within the company to being an SDM 4. Now you are one level higher, in a management role, that would have taken you 5+ years of grinding and some luck to get into. 5. Spend a few…

Explain acronyms please?

TPM = Technical Project Manager; SDE = Software Development Engineer; SDM = Software Development Manager

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#23

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Nov 02, 2023, 5:32 PM UTC

lakomen wrote: post #17

ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #3

How to get rich in tech as a mediocre programmer: 1. Transfer to a TPM/QA Manager role at somewhere like Amazon or Microsoft. Bar is much lower to get into this role. 2. Get hired into a higher level than you could in a SWE role. 3. Transfer within the company to being an SDM 4. Now you are one level higher, in a management role, that would have taken you 5+ years of grinding and some luck to get into. 5. Spend a few…

Explain acronyms please?

[deleted]

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#24

Post by supriyo-biswas » Thu, Nov 02, 2023, 5:32 PM UTC

onion2k wrote: post #16

ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #3

How to get rich in tech as a mediocre programmer: 1. Transfer to a TPM/QA Manager role at somewhere like Amazon or Microsoft. Bar is much lower to get into this role. 2. Get hired into a higher level than you could in a SWE role. 3. Transfer within the company to being an SDM 4. Now you are one level higher, in a management role, that would have taken you 5+ years of grinding and some luck to get into. 5. Spend a few…

while bossing around engineers much smarter than you How much smarter than you are they if you've taken an effective shortcut to getting paid significantly more while doing a lot less work? Working harder, taking all the stress, and earning less doesn't sound that smart.

Parent is referring to the fact that the technical acumen of this kind of manager is usually far less than the engineers who are working under them, which leads to worse outcomes for the engineers in question (but is a fine career choice and a rational decision for the now manager).

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#25

Post by smokel » Thu, Nov 02, 2023, 5:32 PM UTC

dauertewigkeit wrote: post #11

Industry wide, not even in startups, the people who get screwed the most are the ones working under the hood. I am not even talking about the disparity between SWEs and C-suites. I'm talking within the engineering domain. The closer you are to the application side the more credit you get for the effort, even if it might have only been possible through the hard work of recent under the hood technological advances. A p…

Only a few people who were in the right place at the right time and struck AI gold got lucky. Many PhDs have been slaving away and metaphorically died in several harsh AI winters. Nothing to be jealous of.

There are several examples of people who got lucky with infrastructure or more technical engineering, but it is not because of their perceived role or something superficial.

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#26

Post by andy99 » Thu, Nov 02, 2023, 5:32 PM UTC

onion2k wrote: post #16

ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #3

How to get rich in tech as a mediocre programmer: 1. Transfer to a TPM/QA Manager role at somewhere like Amazon or Microsoft. Bar is much lower to get into this role. 2. Get hired into a higher level than you could in a SWE role. 3. Transfer within the company to being an SDM 4. Now you are one level higher, in a management role, that would have taken you 5+ years of grinding and some luck to get into. 5. Spend a few…

while bossing around engineers much smarter than you How much smarter than you are they if you've taken an effective shortcut to getting paid significantly more while doing a lot less work? Working harder, taking all the stress, and earning less doesn't sound that smart.

There's an old saying

  If you're so smart, why aren't you rich?

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#27

Post by mushufasa » Thu, Nov 02, 2023, 5:33 PM UTC

ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #3

How to get rich in tech as a mediocre programmer: 1. Transfer to a TPM/QA Manager role at somewhere like Amazon or Microsoft. Bar is much lower to get into this role. 2. Get hired into a higher level than you could in a SWE role. 3. Transfer within the company to being an SDM 4. Now you are one level higher, in a management role, that would have taken you 5+ years of grinding and some luck to get into. 5. Spend a few…

> So the CEO can sit on his hands the whole time the product is developed, but then does reap huge gains.

This sounds off to me. Even if the CEO isn't a technical engineer literally working on the code, they are ultimately accountable for getting engineers and designers to build the right product. Building the right product is massively hard. Usually, it takes several wrong takes to get it right. 90% of startups fail.

When an engineer is hired post-traction, they may not see all the scars and dead bodies of those failed attempts. It may seem easy to manage if the product is already a hit, because when there is true PMF it's hard to mess up.

But that's like those stories about how the military in WW2 thought they should be adding armor to the areas of the plane that had holes after sorties. That was totally wrong; the real problem would have been to add the armor to the areas of the plane without holes, because *those planes crashed and were never recovered.* In other words, what "seems easy to sit on the hands" is survivorship bias, and ignores the brutal reality of struggle that any founder will be able to relate with. Assuming that "engineers could run these businesses themselves" indicates a very incomplete understanding of what is involved with actually building and running a business.

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#28

Post by JrProgrammer » Thu, Nov 02, 2023, 5:33 PM UTC

onion2k wrote: post #16

ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #3

How to get rich in tech as a mediocre programmer: 1. Transfer to a TPM/QA Manager role at somewhere like Amazon or Microsoft. Bar is much lower to get into this role. 2. Get hired into a higher level than you could in a SWE role. 3. Transfer within the company to being an SDM 4. Now you are one level higher, in a management role, that would have taken you 5+ years of grinding and some luck to get into. 5. Spend a few…

while bossing around engineers much smarter than you How much smarter than you are they if you've taken an effective shortcut to getting paid significantly more while doing a lot less work? Working harder, taking all the stress, and earning less doesn't sound that smart.

For a lot of people, work happiness is also a big factor, as it should. You’re spending at least 1/3rd of your whole day at your work. Choosing a specific path does not make you smarter per definition

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#29

Post by ldjkfkdsjnv » Thu, Nov 02, 2023, 5:34 PM UTC

mushufasa wrote: post #27

ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #3

How to get rich in tech as a mediocre programmer: 1. Transfer to a TPM/QA Manager role at somewhere like Amazon or Microsoft. Bar is much lower to get into this role. 2. Get hired into a higher level than you could in a SWE role. 3. Transfer within the company to being an SDM 4. Now you are one level higher, in a management role, that would have taken you 5+ years of grinding and some luck to get into. 5. Spend a few…

> So the CEO can sit on his hands the whole time the product is developed, but then does reap huge gains. This sounds off to me. Even if the CEO isn't a technical engineer literally working on the code, they are ultimately accountable for getting engineers and designers to build the right product. Building the right product is massively hard. Usually, it takes several wrong takes to get it right. 90% of startups fail…

This is how its supposed to work in theory. As a CTO, you can easily end up doing all the work of the CEO, which he gains from. Its only when you go to write the software, that alot of the product decisions get made. This is what the ycombinator video is about.

Re: How to Not Get Screwed over as a Software Engineer [video]

#30

Post by dogman144 » Thu, Nov 02, 2023, 5:35 PM UTC

teachrdan wrote: post #7

nine_zeros wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do not work at Amazon or amazon-like companies. They are just not worth it from a mental health, wlb, or career perspective for engineers. Find engineering/product first companies. Big tech ain't it any longer.

What would you recommend instead?

What linked current Big Tech was early entrants into adtech and the related money-printing machine.

Now they are just large advertising platforms that do something to attract users and user data.

I think under similar logic, if you want to work for those companies for comp/prof development, it’s probably whatever next money printer is building out.

IMO this is probably AI, next-gen adtech that keeps the technology going post-GDPR etc (platform plays like FAANG or great user enumeration companies in the open ecosystem, although a lack of a non-obvious adtech product might limit the growth and prestigious of these types) maybe some top cybersecurity vendors if the problems get worse and regulations get serious, maybe defense tech (second gen ones following what Palantir did).