In games, the phenomenon that repeatedly emerges is a transition from commodity barter to commodity money. Maybe it's due to limitations of each game's item and exchange systems, but we never see a credit theory scenario emerge. I'd love to see a game that allows for both scenarios where we can run this experiment any number of times to see what happens.
The Origins of Money in Diablo II
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Re: The Origins of Money in Diablo II
#12> Diablo II is a case study of great interest for monetary theory, first of all because it provides a set of observable circumstances in which monetary exchange emerged from a barter economy.
There is another great example of that: “The Economic Organisation of a P.O.W. Camp”:
http://homepage.ntu.edu.tw/~yitingli/file/Money%20and%20Bank...
Re: The Origins of Money in Diablo II
#13In games, the phenomenon that repeatedly emerges is a transition from commodity barter to commodity money. Maybe it's due to limitations of each game's item and exchange systems, but we never see a credit theory scenario emerge. I'd love to see a game that allows for both scenarios where we can run this experiment any number of times to see what happens.
> Maybe it's due to limitations of each game's item and exchange systems, but we never see a credit theory scenario emerge.
It's not particularly surprising: credit relies on trust, which in turns can rely on either
1. close social relationship between participants (the traditional society model) or
2. the existence of a coercive force you can call to help you get your credit back (the state).
MMORPG have 1. inside clans and guilds, and as such lending between clan members is commonplace, but since there's no 2. the debt-based economy can never arise at game scale.
Re: The Origins of Money in Diablo II
#14Diablo 2 is a game where players are largely anonymous and act as strangers to one another.
This setting is more akin to the kind of low-trust situation where, according to Graeber (Debt: the first 5000 years), money is more likely to emerge because it doesn't require the same level of personal trust as credit systems.
I've never played Diablo 2, but in other MMOs there's a concept of guilds, and people band together for specific objectives to help others get loot, level up, etc. A game akin to that would probably be a better sandbox to test assumptions around the observable circumstances in which monetary exchange could emerged from a "barter economy."
In such an environment you can monitor how resources are distributed and acquired with in the guild. Do players in guilds, with in guilds, fall back on money based systems or in scenarios where one has "social credit," with in the guild to get what it is that they need?
Re: The Origins of Money in Diablo II
#15The downside of studying economics in Diablo II is that it's an entirely non-coercive environment, whereas real-world economic behaviour is essentially defined by coercion. That said, many economists are fully capable of ignoring the compulsive aspect of economics regardless, so perhaps for them, Diablo II is a perfect microcosm.
> real-world economic behaviour is essentially defined by coercion
What do you mean?
I have two different guesses about what you might be talking about:
- IRL by virtue of being a biological creature, you must buy food, clothing and shelter.
- IRL you have to pay taxes.
Am I on the right track, or do you mean something else?
Re: The Origins of Money in Diablo II
#16Re: The Origins of Money in Diablo II
#17In games, the phenomenon that repeatedly emerges is a transition from commodity barter to commodity money. Maybe it's due to limitations of each game's item and exchange systems, but we never see a credit theory scenario emerge. I'd love to see a game that allows for both scenarios where we can run this experiment any number of times to see what happens.
> Maybe it's due to limitations of each game's item and exchange systems, but we never see a credit theory scenario emerge. It's not particularly surprising: credit relies on trust, which in turns can rely on either 1. close social relationship between participants (the traditional society model) or 2. the existence of a coercive force you can call to help you get your credit back (the state). MMORPG have 1. inside c…
This tracks with my understanding and expectations as well.
What doe the "existence of a coercive force you can call to help you get your credit back," would look like in a MMO, and how you could gamify that mechanic. Maybe something like a credit score and bounty hunters? smart contracts? (not crypto based.) Fun to think about.
Re: The Origins of Money in Diablo II
#18Thanks OP for posting that. I've long been fascinated by how the d2 economics work and it always looked to me like a very interesting environment to study economic behaviors. I haven't opened the paper yet, but I hope d2jsp's FGs (diablo 2 community's third party fiat currency system) are included in the analysis as well.
Spoiler alert: it mentions d2jsp, but nothing about forum gold. That's a shame since it theorizes about social standing being used as a currency backing of sorts, so it hints at the idea.
Re: The Origins of Money in Diablo II
#19The downside of studying economics in Diablo II is that it's an entirely non-coercive environment, whereas real-world economic behaviour is essentially defined by coercion. That said, many economists are fully capable of ignoring the compulsive aspect of economics regardless, so perhaps for them, Diablo II is a perfect microcosm.
> real-world economic behaviour is essentially defined by coercion What do you mean? I have two different guesses about what you might be talking about: - IRL by virtue of being a biological creature, you must buy food, clothing and shelter. - IRL you have to pay taxes. Am I on the right track, or do you mean something else?
I would have guessed that they're referring to regulations.