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FCC launches inquiry to increase minimum broadband speed [pdf]

docs.fcc.gov

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Re: FCC launches inquiry to increase minimum broadband speed [pdf]

#381

Post by warner25 »

hn_acker wrote: post #371
warner25 wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me too. I tell everyone who will listen that they should look at their actual bandwidth usage. I've looked at the detailed statistics on my Google Nest WiFi router, and my family's peak usage never exceeded about 30 Mbps. That's with me working from home as a CS PhD student and my wife homeschooling our kids during the day. I have 300 Mbps (down) because that's the lowest, cheapest tier that my ISP offers. Maybe peop…

> Me too. I tell everyone who will listen that they should look at their actual bandwidth usage. I shouldn't have to look at my actual bandwidth usage. As I wrote in a different comment [1]: > You are unknowingly accepting being ripped off. It's not reasonable for big ISPs like Comcast to offer me 300 megabits download 15 megabits upload for $70 a month (might've been $90, but assume $70) while EPB of Chattanooga [1]…

Sure. I just mean, from a home economics perspective, that people should look at their actual bandwidth usage rather than blindly paying for 500 Mbps or 1 Gbps because they just want a fast connection and that's what the ISP marketing literature recommends for a family of four.

Re: FCC launches inquiry to increase minimum broadband speed [pdf]

#382

Post by userinanother »

KerrAvon wrote: post #161
aidenn0 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You clearly don't play video games. Waiting on downloads in the mid 10s of GB is common.

- Multiple people videoconferencing at once, as was very common in a lot of households during COVID lockdown. - Gaming. - Other large downloads/uploads for WFH purposes. - High-bitrate 4k UHD streaming.

All nice to haves but do we really need to build out all the infrastructure for that if most people don’t need that speed and definitely can’t convert that convenience into economic value. This is especially now that most companies are forcing everyone back and the government is pretending covid is no longer a thing

Re: FCC launches inquiry to increase minimum broadband speed [pdf]

#383

Post by hn_acker »

jjcm wrote: post #108
andrewmunsell wrote: post #3

This is nice, but with increased speed, they should also require ISPs do not impose a data cap to be considered broadband.

I'm actually on the opposite side of this. I wish there were more metered options available for data, especially for wireless options. I'd love to see an offering that has a low monthly connection fee (i.e. $1-5), along with a sensible price per GB option (i.e. double the cost of transit so there are decent margins on this, but isn't something crazy like $10/gb). Assuming that for most consumers the end price average…

At least for wired connections, data caps are utterly artificial [1].

> Network congestion arguments in this debate operate on an unsubstantiated and uncontextualized assumption of scarcity — there is only so much bandwidth, and a few people are going to use it all. Yes, some network congestion arguments have prevailed with wireless broadband because of the atmospherical and technical limitations of the medium. However, congestion is not as consequential for fixed broadband. Broadband providers reason that instead of limiting these internet “super-users” (which would be discriminatory and litigated accordingly), they need to implement data caps for all consumers, which they claim is fair and unbiased. However, scarcity is not a reality for broadband providers, even with super-users. Internet functions by “statistical multiplexing” meaning that bandwidth is dynamically allocated and reused without a limit “[u]nlike other utilities such as water, electricity, gas or oil.”

> This means that no super-user is consuming bandwidth at the expense of other users; you’re not going to receive less internet because your neighbor runs a Twitch channel, for example. Rather, super-users are simply using more internet more often, and the “super-user discount” (the fact that broadband providers aren’t able to charge them, specifically, for this “above normal” usage) angers providers more than anything else. This brings us to the real reason broadband providers apply data caps to consumers: money. Applying data caps to all of us, therefore, enables broadband providers to pat themselves on the back for devising clever “overage” fees.

As time goes on the same will become true for the majority of wireless usage, if it isn't true already.

Sending twice the data at a time doesn't cost the ISP twice the money. But large ISPs with regional monopolies continue overcharging you [2] while committing subsidy fraud [3] and subsidy obstruction [4] at every opportunity (sometimes with help from corrupt legislators [5]).

[1] https://publicknowledge.org/no-cap-the-truth-about-data-caps...

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38105873

[3] Pick any one of these links. https://www.techdirt.com/2020/10/06/mississippi-says-att-too... https://www.techdirt.com/2023/02/15/report-shows-comcast-con... https://www.techdirt.com/2023/02/16/verizon-t-mobile-oversta...

[4] Pick any one of these links. https://communitynets.org/content/monopoly-providers-mire-nt... https://www.techdirt.com/2023/02/15/report-shows-comcast-con... https://www.techdirt.com/2015/04/16/alec-threatens-to-sue-cr...

[5] Ditto. https://www.techdirt.com/2021/02/19/new-bill-tries-to-ban-co... https://www.techdirt.com/2022/04/11/illinois-missouri-and-ne...

Re: FCC launches inquiry to increase minimum broadband speed [pdf]

#384

Post by IdiranVibe »

adrr wrote: post #227
IdiranVibe wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It blows my mind that you guys in the US still have to deal with data caps ... It's been years in the UK since that's been a thing for broadband, and we're close to the point where mobile data will be the same

Only data caps if you only have one choice in broad band. Once you have two or more, data caps go away and price is cut in half. If there are no competitors, the provider will milk the customers of cash.

I suppose at that point it's a geography issue which is less of a problem here due to the size of the country

Re: FCC launches inquiry to increase minimum broadband speed [pdf]

#385

Post by warner25 »

anonymouskimmer wrote: post #375
warner25 wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you do with all that, especially with WiFi everywhere? Are you continuously streaming video while on-the-go between WiFi networks? That's fine, it's just stunning. I'm admittedly a minimal user of my phone. I average about 10 unlocks per day. Especially when I'm on-the-go, it's just calls and text messages, some driving directions, and maybe looking up a phone number or business hours. If I use it to listen t…

> I'm admittedly a minimal user of my phone. I average about 10 unlocks per day. That's about 5 - 10 times the amount of unlocks I do. Not what I'd consider minimal, at all. :D

Nice! I have a few days in the past month with only 1-2 unlocks, but those are outliers. At a minimum, my wife and I will exchange a couple messages per hour when I'm out of the house. I like to think that I could live as a total weirdo without a phone (just my Google Voice line from my laptop) if I were single.

Re: FCC launches inquiry to increase minimum broadband speed [pdf]

#386

Post by jedbrown »

gnicholas wrote: post #162

I started with Comcast with 12Mbps service. Over time, they increased the base speed they offer to 20, 25, 50, and now 75. They have done this because they want to have x% of their customers on "broadband", per the federal definition. This is all well and good, but they keep increasing the price, and refuse to offer lower-tier service. I probably wouldn't want 12Mbps anymore, but 20 or 25 would suffice. I wish I coul…

They tripled the price of my grandmother's service over a five year period despite no speed increases so I figure they were going to charge you more regardless.

Re: FCC launches inquiry to increase minimum broadband speed [pdf]

#387

Post by pests »

warner25 wrote: post #349
pests wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have 3 days left in my billing cycle on phone and I've used 8.5GB of data. I have WiFi everywhere I go too. 500 for $5 would cost me about $50 - unlimited makes perfect sense.

What do you do with all that, especially with WiFi everywhere? Are you continuously streaming video while on-the-go between WiFi networks? That's fine, it's just stunning. I'm admittedly a minimal user of my phone. I average about 10 unlocks per day. Especially when I'm on-the-go, it's just calls and text messages, some driving directions, and maybe looking up a phone number or business hours. If I use it to listen t…

I don't actually like connecting to public WiFi spots. Ususally the connection is worse than my cellular and why send data through yet another third party network? At least I have a long established relationship with my service provider.

Continuously streaming video? Not at all, might watch something here or there but most of my device usage is text or just reading. I barely use the phone or texting or social media.

I think we forget just how data-hungry modern apps are. A 1080p "Full-HD" YouTube video will consume 4GB/hour of watch time. Even going down to 480p is still 1GB/hour.

Re: FCC launches inquiry to increase minimum broadband speed [pdf]

#388

Post by pests »

warner25 wrote: post #385
anonymouskimmer wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm admittedly a minimal user of my phone. I average about 10 unlocks per day. That's about 5 - 10 times the amount of unlocks I do. Not what I'd consider minimal, at all. :D

Nice! I have a few days in the past month with only 1-2 unlocks, but those are outliers. At a minimum, my wife and I will exchange a couple messages per hour when I'm out of the house. I like to think that I could live as a total weirdo without a phone (just my Google Voice line from my laptop) if I were single.

How many times a day do you unlock your laptop though?

Re: FCC launches inquiry to increase minimum broadband speed [pdf]

#389

Post by warner25 »

pests wrote: post #388
warner25 wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice! I have a few days in the past month with only 1-2 unlocks, but those are outliers. At a minimum, my wife and I will exchange a couple messages per hour when I'm out of the house. I like to think that I could live as a total weirdo without a phone (just my Google Voice line from my laptop) if I were single.

How many times a day do you unlock your laptop though?

Haha, once in the morning, and I then I'm looking at it all day long.

Re: FCC launches inquiry to increase minimum broadband speed [pdf]

#390

Post by gnicholas »

ZoomerCretin wrote: post #359
mixdup wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is all well and good, but they keep increasing the price, and refuse to offer lower-tier service. I probably wouldn't want 12Mbps anymore, but 20 or 25 would suffice. I wish I could pay a fraction of what I'm paying for 75Mbps and get a lower tier of service. It should suffice that x% of customers are offered "broadband" for a reasonable price, even if some choose a lower speed. The problem is that most of the…

The UK fixes this by forcing the companies who own the lines to rent and share them with other providers. ISPs in the US vehemently oppose this, of course.

> ISPs in the US vehemently oppose this, of course.

But is it still required though? Isn't this how Sonic uses AT&T lines? Perhaps it only applies to DSL, which is basically obsolete now?

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