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Life lessons from the death bed

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Re: Life lessons from the death bed

#161

Post by digging »

jebarker wrote: post #154
rootusrootus wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't worry much about it being unpleasant, hurting, whatever -- I too have had the experience of general anesthetic. That's never been the part that bothered me about dying. It is the permanence . You get your shot, then you're done, forever . There are going to be fascinating discoveries and developments in the future that I'd like to see play out. Ah well. But it's definitely true, worrying about death is a priv…

I've often pondered this Christopher Hitchen's quote on this: “The clear awareness of having been born into a losing struggle need not lead one into despair. I do not especially like the idea that one day I shall be tapped on the shoulder and informed, not that the party is over but that it is most assuredly going on—only henceforth in my absence. (It's the second of those thoughts: the edition of the newspaper that…

> I can't honestly say whether I find eternal life more appealing than permanent death.

Unless you believe in some sort of immortal soul which might blossom into something other than a human consciousness after death, immortality is horrifying. A human mind wasn't evolved to live eternally, and doing so may well be a nightmare. Or maybe we'd just start to forget at some point and hemorrhage past centuries... that would be an extraordinary sadness to me.

Re: Life lessons from the death bed

#162

Post by digging »

michael_leachim wrote: post #127

we've had nightly air raid alerts for the last two years. Now there are less of them, but I don't know what the future will bring. I think russia is preparing their winter campaign of terror again, so we will see. When it is 3 in the morning and you hear explosions and you are really really fcking happy that it didn't hit you. You can also have no electricity and heat in the middle of the winter, but it sort of sorta…

Very happy for you, taking such beautiful lessons and growth from such horror. Glad you've felt free to live as the person you are.

Re: Life lessons from the death bed

#163

Post by allturtles »

Nice stories, but they seem rather pat and tidy, each with a neat little moral. OP spent 3 hours a week at a hospice for one semester (probably < 60 hours total), and came away with four different stories that could be pitches for episodes of "Hospice" the TV series? I dunno.

Re: Life lessons from the death bed

#164

Post by hotnfresh »

digging wrote: post #160
hotnfresh wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, and we won’t be anxious about it then . But now is not then.

That's what they're saying, though. The anxiety today is not useful because it's anxiety about something that will never happen. You'll never be aware of having died or lost anything through your own death. It's just insanely difficult for us to internalize that idea because we're animals, we avoid death instinctively and fear loss instinctively.

Yeah, I get it. None of that does anything to mitigate the feeling when the yawning expanse of inevitable non-existence comes into one's mind.

[EDIT] Oh, also:

> The anxiety today is not useful because it's anxiety about something that will never happen.

Ceasing to exist will happen. It's guaranteed to happen.

The fact of anxiety being useless doesn't do much to get rid of it. If it did, there wouldn't be much of it at all.

Re: Life lessons from the death bed

#165

Post by RHSman2 »

latexr wrote: post #145
RHSman2 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can conceptually understand death but you do not know it because you don’t experience it’s ‘ground rush’. So I disagree.

> but you do not know it Neither do people on their death beds. > because you don’t experience it’s ‘ground rush’. Death isn’t a spectrum. By that logic, someone who almost died because of a car accident has better insights than someone in a hospice withering over months or years. A person who began pondering their own mortality a week ago because they got terminally ill doesn’t have more valid insights on life and d…

You are missing the subjectivity of the life experience. Death is binary and beyond the event horizon therefore out of the equation. The experience of it is not.

Try climbing. Top ropes, sport and traditional. All the same things but with wholly different consequences. The experience is entirely different.

The person who had a near death experience versus dying is on a spectrum. One being acute, the other being chronic. Both would have different views.

Re: Life lessons from the death bed

#166

Post by webnrrd2k »

BrandoElFollito wrote: post #76
techdragon wrote: post #14

Touching stuff... It could be middle age tainting my perspective... but sometimes I feel this sort of... not visceral , but very close and undeniable ... experience with death is easier for people who are young. Death isn't real for most people at 17, no matter how much they have seen, many see the death of a grandparent, or two, or perhaps even four, before reaching 17, but most still enter their late teens, feeling…

I was thinking about death occasionally until I got my first anesthesia (around 45). I then realized what death is: a switch is flipped off and you are done. No memories, nothing. You just stop to exist. From then on I do not worry anymore and stopped wondering about death altogether.

I find it comforting, somehow, and it helps me to keep a healthy perspective, to think about how, Right now, I don't exist on the top of Mount Everest, or the bottom of the Marianas Trench, or on the Sun, Moon, Mars, or any other potentially infinite places. And it's not a problem.

I also don't worry about not existing almost every place and at every time that I could have existed. There is no direct pain or suffering associated with it.

Re: Life lessons from the death bed

#167

Post by digging »

hotnfresh wrote: post #164
digging wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what they're saying, though. The anxiety today is not useful because it's anxiety about something that will never happen. You'll never be aware of having died or lost anything through your own death. It's just insanely difficult for us to internalize that idea because we're animals, we avoid death instinctively and fear loss instinctively.

Yeah, I get it. None of that does anything to mitigate the feeling when the yawning expanse of inevitable non-existence comes into one's mind. [EDIT] Oh, also: > The anxiety today is not useful because it's anxiety about something that will never happen. Ceasing to exist will happen. It's guaranteed to happen. The fact of anxiety being useless doesn't do much to get rid of it. If it did, there wouldn't be much of it…

> Ceasing to exist will happen. It's guaranteed to happen.

Not from your point of view! You can experience every moment leading up to your death and may be lucky enough to realize you're about to die, but it's not possible to be aware of the end of your own existence. It is always a future event. (Based on our best models, that is. Obviously the living can't possibly know what it's like to be permanently dead.)

> The fact of anxiety being useless doesn't do much to get rid of it.

I don't agree; it's valuable to be aware of the unconscious motivations of anxiety - it's just that awareness alone isn't sufficient to cure the anxiety.

> None of that does anything to mitigate the feeling when the yawning expanse of inevitable non-existence comes into one's mind

Again, I don't agree! Being able to think about "the event" from different angles gives the brain an escape hatch from anxiety traps. The anxiety might come, but now you have tools to handle it instead of be dominated by it.

Re: Life lessons from the death bed

#168

Post by latexr »

RHSman2 wrote: post #165
latexr wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but you do not know it Neither do people on their death beds. > because you don’t experience it’s ‘ground rush’. Death isn’t a spectrum. By that logic, someone who almost died because of a car accident has better insights than someone in a hospice withering over months or years. A person who began pondering their own mortality a week ago because they got terminally ill doesn’t have more valid insights on life and d…

You are missing the subjectivity of the life experience. Death is binary and beyond the event horizon therefore out of the equation. The experience of it is not. Try climbing. Top ropes, sport and traditional. All the same things but with wholly different consequences. The experience is entirely different. The person who had a near death experience versus dying is on a spectrum. One being acute, the other being chron…

> You are missing the subjectivity of the life experience.

No, I am not. You keep making wrong assumptions about me and disagreeing on the surface while (seemingly) agreeing where it matters.

> Both would have different views.

Yes, exactly. Thus the views of the person on their death bed aren’t more universally valid. That’s the whole point I’m making.

Re: Life lessons from the death bed

#169

Post by RHSman2 »

latexr wrote: post #168
RHSman2 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are missing the subjectivity of the life experience. Death is binary and beyond the event horizon therefore out of the equation. The experience of it is not. Try climbing. Top ropes, sport and traditional. All the same things but with wholly different consequences. The experience is entirely different. The person who had a near death experience versus dying is on a spectrum. One being acute, the other being chron…

> You are missing the subjectivity of the life experience. No, I am not. You keep making wrong assumptions about me and disagreeing on the surface while (seemingly) agreeing where it matters. > Both would have different views. Yes, exactly. Thus the views of the person on their death bed aren’t more universally valid. That’s the whole point I’m making .

I am not making any assumptions about you. Simply posting my opinion.

Re: Life lessons from the death bed

#170

Post by hotnfresh »

digging wrote: post #167
hotnfresh wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I get it. None of that does anything to mitigate the feeling when the yawning expanse of inevitable non-existence comes into one's mind. [EDIT] Oh, also: > The anxiety today is not useful because it's anxiety about something that will never happen. Ceasing to exist will happen. It's guaranteed to happen. The fact of anxiety being useless doesn't do much to get rid of it. If it did, there wouldn't be much of it…

> Ceasing to exist will happen. It's guaranteed to happen. Not from your point of view! You can experience every moment leading up to your death and may be lucky enough to realize you're about to die, but it's not possible to be aware of the end of your own existence. It is always a future event. (Based on our best models, that is. Obviously the living can't possibly know what it's like to be permanently dead.) > The…

Yeah, I've done the stoicism thing and all that (since before it was cool, LOL). It's not like I'm crippled by anxiety about death. I just find "why worry, you won't experience it!" to entirely miss the point.
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