I wrote, with the help of ChatGPT-4, a Christian adaptation of the Dao De Jing called "The Dove & the Dao": http://doveandthedao.com. I consulted many translations and commentaries and tried to find where Christianity and Daoism harmonized. Where I couldn't, I adapted it to Christian theology. It was an obsessive endeavor that broke my eyesight due to eyestrain (editing on a smartphone is not recommended) but it's one I was finally able to strike off the bucket list.
Tao Te Ching – Gia-Fu Feng, Jane English Translation (1989)
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Re: Tao Te Ching – Gia-Fu Feng, Jane English Translation (1989)
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
These translations need to provide original Chinese alongside. Otherwise, it is too hard to evaluate. ChatGPT allows everyone to gain their own interpretation.
As it currently stands, ChatGPT is quite bad at classical Chinese.
I think it is great for things that have lots of translations like the Tao Te Ching.
道生一，一生二，二生三，三生万物。万物负阴而抱阳，冲气以为和。
Try it with plus. Ctexts is a great source for classical Chinese texts: https://ctext.org/
Re: Tao Te Ching – Gia-Fu Feng, Jane English Translation (1989)
#83If you can find the oversized print copy of this Gia-Fu Feng and Jane English translation, originally published by Random House, it is one of the most visually inspiring books to read: https://eheart.com/TAO/TTC/TTCchapters-small.pdf Gia-Fu Feng and Jane English were married (by Alan Watts!), and each chapter of the book includes inspiring black-and-white photography by English, with artful Chinese calligraphy from G…
This translation was my introduction to the text, and is still my favorite. Though I've seen other translations I prefer purely on a textual basis, I find their combination of photos, handwritten calligraphy, and English text very powerful still.
(Parenthetically, I got to meet English about twenty years ago and have her inscription in my copy of the book. She studied high energy physics at Madison about twenty years before I did.)
Re: Tao Te Ching – Gia-Fu Feng, Jane English Translation (1989)
#84Oh cool! People here might appreciate this rendition:
http://www.nam21.sakura.ne.jp/tao/
Re: Tao Te Ching – Gia-Fu Feng, Jane English Translation (1989)
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not really
Well verse 53 twists the knife https://twitter.com/yoginho/status/1244892104196870146
Not really, that chapter is more about irresponsible nobles. Starving the farmers and consequently others is rather characteristic of communism, I would say. A better chapter to make your point would be chapter 80. But if all one tries to use the tao te ching for is scoring points for or against some ism, a large point has been missed.
Re: Tao Te Ching – Gia-Fu Feng, Jane English Translation (1989)
#86I've seen Tao Te Ching's translation on the HN front page for several times. It seems people are interested in it. The thing with Tao Te Ching is it's too ambiguous because: 1) The Chinese language is very overloaded and thus very ambiguous. 2) Classical Chinese is even more so. 3) Tao Te Ching is intentionally filled with clever puns which makes it more ambiguous. The problem with translations is the translator has…
Same thing with the Bible - to me reading it as a single translation seems making little sense. Reading every verse in multiple versions in multiple languages, looking up multiple meanings of every word feels a whole different story. Luckily reading Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek, Latin and Old English is much easier than reading Chinese. I still feel like learning Chinese to read Taoist texts though, because they are so coo…
For people who aren't Christian or aren't as familiar with the various translations:
English translations of the Bible tend to be a tradeoff between making the text easy to read for modern English speakers (at the risk of inserting the translator's own interpretation of the text) versus translating the text literally. The tradeoff is particularly important since some sects of Christianity believe that the specific words of the Bible as originally written were inspired by God. As you might expect, most translations fall somewhere in the middle between literal and readable.
The existence of the King James Version (KJV) further complicates things. As I understand it, most scholars would consider it an accurate translation but not necessarily an extremely literal translation. Being written in the 1600s, it doesn't incorporate the most recent scholarship and archeology; e.g. certain verses that scholars no longer think were in the original text[1]. However, because of how culturally influential the KJV is there can be significant resistance to using other versions. The extreme being the King James Only Movement which believes that the KJV is the only acceptable version of the Bible.
Wikipedia has pretty good articles on a lot of these subjects:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_version_debate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_translations
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_James_Only_movement
[1] I want to emphasize here: These range from relatively minor differences in wording, to stories that appear to be original but may be in the wrong chronological place in the narrative, to passages (notably the story of "The Woman Caught in Adultery") that may not be original. Although personally I don't think these differences call the reliability of the Bible into question, it's a nuanced subject and you definitely shouldn't just take my word for it.
Re: Tao Te Ching – Gia-Fu Feng, Jane English Translation (1989)
#87If you can find the oversized print copy of this Gia-Fu Feng and Jane English translation, originally published by Random House, it is one of the most visually inspiring books to read: https://eheart.com/TAO/TTC/TTCchapters-small.pdf Gia-Fu Feng and Jane English were married (by Alan Watts!), and each chapter of the book includes inspiring black-and-white photography by English, with artful Chinese calligraphy from G…
Looks beautiful - is this that edition?
https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/180810/tao-te-ching...
Re: Tao Te Ching – Gia-Fu Feng, Jane English Translation (1989)
#88How are you supposed to read the Tao Te Ching? I’ve picked up a few copies and didn’t quite understand.
Re: Tao Te Ching – Gia-Fu Feng, Jane English Translation (1989)
#89How are you supposed to read the Tao Te Ching? I’ve picked up a few copies and didn’t quite understand.
They’re like koans worth contemplating. Not usually direct advice (though that’s there too!). Taoism is about the limitations of our ability to comprehend and “name” things. So by definition it would say we cannot have a literal understanding of the Dao or the universe.
A lot of Taoism is about opposites. Both coexisting / feeding on each other and they’re waxing and waning. You can’t achieve victory without inevitably seeing what you fought for defeated. Learning and unlearning. Power through subservience, etc
Taoism is also about the connection to the natural state of things. In terms of physics this is about things unfolding in a way towards highest entropy and lowest potential energy.
I see it as a reminder of both how transitory and eternal life / the universe is. We’re all part of an ongoing flow. It’s a way of finding balance, and a degree of tranquility, as a mortal in this world
Re: Tao Te Ching – Gia-Fu Feng, Jane English Translation (1989)
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's funny to say there is "no definite meaning" when the action proposed is non-action, the meaning defined is un-meaning, the way is wuwei.
GP is talking about Confucian text for f's sake... Whatever the meaning of the text that GP quoted, there is a definitely clear call for action, something to do with studying hard and taking on official duties.
Yeah the only ambiguity here is if learning is being promoted or if officialdom is. That is, is it saying that "Learning and excellence leads to officialdom" ie. that the end goal of studying is to become an official or is excellence in learning just a prerequisite for officialdom but that is not it's main goal. I think the common usage tends to imply that studying is a means of becomimg an official.